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Old October 1, 2012, 09:26 PM   #26
ky hunter
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Thanks OLD BEAR FOR the reply.
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Old October 2, 2012, 11:55 AM   #27
18DAI
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The pinned barrels were eliminated in 1982, prior to the CNC machines.

There were "transition" revolvers made subsequent to 1982. These had either a pinned barrel, or recessed cylinder. Usually one or the other but not both. These were done as S&W used up parts in inventory. The pinned barrel, in addition to helping visually date the revolver, is indicative of more hand fitting and quality control as well.

The crush fitting of the barrels evidently took S&W some time to master. Today they evidently can't even align the barrels properly, going by the amount of canted S&W barrel threads on the net.

Out of six brand new S&W revolvers at the LGS, four had varying degrees of canted barrels. Two had absolutley lousy crowns on their barrels.

They must have job corp graduates assembling their revolvers these days.

No matter, plenty of nice P&R examples still available for much less than the asking price of current production. Regards 18DAI
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:03 PM   #28
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"...you almost never got an old one with a trigger pull that really needed any further 'enhancement' ".

Hmmm. Well, quite a few of us made some decent money doing "trigger jobs" on those guns whose pulls didn't need "ehnhancement." I think we often view the "good old days" with rose-colored glasses.

As to the barrel pinning, sorry, AKsRul.e. S&W made the cross cut in the barrel during barrel manufacture and before the barrel was installed. The frame hole was already drilled, also, so when the barrel was installed it was only a matter of driving in the pin. I know it is hard to believe, but precision manufacturing was being done many decades before CNC machines ever existed. In fact, guns don't even require much in the way of precision, compared to, say, a computer hard drive.

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Old October 2, 2012, 02:34 PM   #29
Mike Irwin
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Yeah...

EVERY Smith & Wesson revovler I've ever purchased, ranging in production dates from about 1910 to the mid 1980s, has benefitted GREATLY from action work on my part.

My Regulation Police 4" .32 Long, made probably about 1922, had perhaps the heaviest trigger pull I've ever encounted on an S&W.

Due to its age and the fact that it's an I frame there wasn't a tremendous amount that I could do for it, but I did what I could.
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
The pinned barrels were eliminated in 1982... There were "transition" revolvers made subsequent to 1982. These had either a pinned barrel, or recessed cylinder. Usually one or the other but not both. These were done as S&W used up parts in inventory. The pinned barrel, in addition to helping visually date the revolver, is indicative of more hand fitting and quality control as well.
This is mostly correct, but IMHO it's helpful to mention a couple of things.
  • Based on what I've seen in collector circles, a limited number of non-pinned S&Ws were sold going back to the early 70s. AFAIK these mostly consist of M60s with a few M67s thrown in. Collectors believe they are the result of some sort of limited factory test program.
  • The L frame M58x/68x models went into production in 1980 without barrel pins from the beginning- or recessed cylinders for that matter. AFAIK "P&R" L frames do not exist and the 1982 cutoff doesn't apply.
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Last edited by carguychris; October 2, 2012 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Minor reword...
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:47 PM   #31
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Fortunately, I don't recognize L frames as being handguns.

With that full underlug, they are obviously over/under shotguns with a pistol grip.

And ugly as a ball of snot, to boot.
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:51 PM   #32
Bob Wright
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Mike Irwin wrote:

Quote:
Fortunately, I don't recognize L frames as being handguns.

With that full underlug, they are obviously over/under shotguns with a pistol grip.

And ugly as a ball of snot, to boot.
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:56 PM   #33
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LOL Mike, I understand your sentiment, although I'm sure some L frame fans may be upset!

I used to own a 6" M586; it was crazy accurate, but it had some Bangor Punta QA/QC problems- the finish on the upper frame and one spot on the barrel looked like it had been polished with sandpaper- and the gun was an absolute boat anchor that was impossible for me to carry comfortably. I never really warmed up to it, realized I liked shooting my 4" K frames more, and sold it.
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Old October 2, 2012, 03:13 PM   #34
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I have a 586 revolver that may be the best shooting revolver I own. It has had an action job because it's a range gun for IDPA. It's not as nicely made as an older gun but this one happens to work. I don't do any work on a carry gun other than shoot it. Most S&W guns, even,the ones they make now, smooth up nicely with use. I have a 625JM that I have lightened the pull on for IDPA, it's very smooth without any polishing. I couldn't get any Federal primers a couple years ago and I had to untune it to make it shoot every time with Winchester primers but it was still smooth even tho a little heavy for my taste. I never had done any tuning on S&W revolvers til I started shooting IDPA, I don't see the need of it for everyday use and I would never lighten the mainspring on a carry gun, it's asking for misfires.
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Old October 2, 2012, 03:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Fortunately, I don't recognize L frames as being handguns.

With that full underlug, they are obviously over/under shotguns with a pistol grip.
Thanks for the first laugh of my day!
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Old October 2, 2012, 06:37 PM   #36
Mike Irwin
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let them take those double gun revolvers bird hunting Chris...
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Old October 2, 2012, 07:47 PM   #37
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Of my 2 M 10s; -5 is pinned, -8 is not.
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Old October 3, 2012, 04:37 AM   #38
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What about an L frame without a full length underlug ? My 686+ Mountain Gun is my favorite S&W, just love the way it looks. Four inch tapered barrel, 7 shot.
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Old October 3, 2012, 05:26 AM   #39
Mike Irwin
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You are half way to a sawn off shotgun....
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Old October 3, 2012, 08:45 AM   #40
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Quote:
Fortunately, I don't recognize L frames as being handguns.

With that full underlug, they are obviously over/under shotguns with a pistol grip.

And ugly as a ball of snot, to boot
.

<LOL> Now that is FUNNY!

And IMHO, so true...
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Old October 3, 2012, 01:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
it was a Bangor Punta model 24. No pin.
Bangor Punta almost did to Smith and Wesson what they almost did to Harley Davidson. Those were some rough years for quality.
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Old October 3, 2012, 05:15 PM   #42
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Quote:
Bangor Punta almost did to Smith and Wesson what they almost did to Harley Davidson
When I read that I thought "HUH?" Upon googling I learned they had attempted to buy HD, but it didn't happen. HD was sold to AMF instead.

Jim

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Old October 3, 2012, 06:20 PM   #43
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I'm no expert on motorcycles, but based on what some Harley owners have told me, I'm not sure how much worse Bangor Punta would have been compared to AMF!

At least S&W and/or H-D weren't sold to British Leyland- arguably the overall 20th century leader in taking over well-established and loved brands and absolutely running them into the ground.
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Old October 3, 2012, 10:56 PM   #44
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Well, here’s a chance for some of you S&W experts to school me about what may be an urban legend I heard when I was an impressionable ‘young’ man.

(And I’ll be disappointed but I promise I’ll try not to let my feelings get hurt if this story is pure balderdash.)

The story is that when new S&W revolvers came in at the local hardware store they were inspected really closely and when a real clunker showed up that obviously was not up to spec the store notified their best customers who would snap it up and send it back to S&W where some of the same guys that worked in the Performance Center would correct the issue with the revolver and usually ‘clean up’ anything else they saw that didn’t meet their standards. The results were that for buying a clunker at regular price you got back a pretty slick gun.

I guess the true/false question would hinge on did the same guys do warrantee work that did the custom work at S&W?
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Old October 3, 2012, 11:22 PM   #45
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This is a thread on pinned barrels but many pinned barrels coincide with recessed cylinders. Sorry for the lamest of questions, but can someone describe in 10 words or less what is recessed in a recessed cylinder?
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Old October 4, 2012, 12:19 AM   #46
DaleA
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A picture is definitely worth a thousand words here. (Hope this image makes it to the thread.)

recessedW.jpg

The recessed cylinder gives the case a little more support but it's more expensive to make and since *lots* of guns out there operate just fine without them it's a cost cutting measure that's been adopted by many manufacturers.


Last edited by DaleA; October 4, 2012 at 07:09 AM.
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Old October 4, 2012, 12:26 AM   #47
carguychris
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...but can someone describe in 10 words or less what is recessed in a recessed cylinder?
10 words or less... hmm challenging.

Chambers are counterbored. Cases fit flush with rear cylinder face.

Does that describe it well enough?

Mandatory added info... this only applies to centerfire Magnums. Standard-production centerfire non-Magnum S&W revolvers have never had counterbored chambers. OTOH standard-production post-1935 rimfire S&W revolvers all have counterbored chambers, including today's production; this is done as a safety measure in the event of a case-head blowout.
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