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Old September 23, 2012, 12:13 PM   #1
JKilbreth
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HI-Point handguns.

Okay, I'm pretty sure they're not all that good, but I wanted to see if anyone on the forum owns one, or has shot one.

The reason I'm asking is because I saw them advertised in GunBroker, ad they're dirt cheap. That was my first red flag. Then, I read a review that said they were blowback-operated. Never heard of that in a hand gun, but I'm familiar with the operating system. Problem is, the only blowback-operated weapon I've ever fired was the Army's MK-19 automatic grenade launcher, and I expect it to have some marked differences with a handgun

So, if anyone's owned or shot one, I'd love some input!
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Old September 23, 2012, 12:15 PM   #2
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Update: I posted this three minutes before someone else posted a much more successful thread. Please discontinue my thread
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Old September 23, 2012, 09:01 PM   #3
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Seen an old Hi point thread, not a new one...

Basically... They are big, heavy, crude, poor trigger, poor ergos, and butt ugly. Owners report they are accurate, generally reliable after a brief break in, and pretty durable.

Here is a link to a youtube user that has several videos about them. They started out with the idea that they were junk and wanted to destroy one just for the fun of it... after several videos of some very extreme attempts to destroy the pistol... they left with a changed mind on them. They did things to that pistol that no gun should be able to survive.
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Old September 23, 2012, 09:46 PM   #4
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There are many threads on TFL about Hi-Points if you do a search. Just click on the search button on the tool bar above the threads. Write in Hi-Point, and click "go" You'll find lots to read, and links to lots of videos of both their near indestructibility, and impressive accuracy. They aren't going top win any beauty contests, and draw the ire of many just because they are what they are. Very inexpensive guns. But they do shoot, and shoot well by my experience.
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Old September 23, 2012, 10:12 PM   #5
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"...blowback-operated. Never heard of that in a hand gun..."

All .22 semi-auto pistols, and almost all .32 and .380 pistols are blowback, as well as a few pistols in 9mm Luger (besides Hi Point). Hi Point uses a heavy slide to allow blowback operation with 9mm Luger and .45 ACP, making the gun, bulky, top heavy and with an unbalanced feel. But they are reliable and reasonably durable. Not ideal as a carry gun, and not pretty, but for home defense, reliability beats pretty every time.

Jim
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Old September 24, 2012, 02:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James K View Post
"...blowback-operated. Never heard of that in a hand gun..."

All .22 semi-auto pistols, and almost all .32 and .380 pistols are blowback, as well as a few pistols in 9mm Luger (besides Hi Point). Hi Point uses a heavy slide to allow blowback operation with 9mm Luger and .45 ACP, making the gun, bulky, top heavy and with an unbalanced feel. But they are reliable and reasonably durable. Not ideal as a carry gun, and not pretty, but for home defense, reliability beats pretty every time.

Jim
Perhaps there's a possibility that "blowback" action is not what I think it is…

Doesn't blowback action refer to the bolt locking to the rear and coming forward only after the trigger is pulled? I'm certainly no gun engineer, but wouldn't the force of the bolt moving forward throw off your accuracy?

If I'm wrong, the fact that I've never heard this kind of operation in an auto pistol is further testament to the fact that you learn something new every day!
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Old September 24, 2012, 06:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Perhaps there's a possibility that "blowback" action is not what I think it is…

Doesn't blowback action refer to the bolt locking to the rear and coming forward only after the trigger is pulled? I'm certainly no gun engineer, but wouldn't the force of the bolt moving forward throw off your accuracy?

If I'm wrong, the fact that I've never heard this kind of operation in an auto pistol is further testament to the fact that you learn something new every day!
You're thinking of "open-bolt", it used primarily machine pistols/machine guns....like Uzi's MP5's, 240G's and M2's....TEC9, MAC10/11 series also offered open bolt versions if I am not mistake. The easiest way to think of blowback is, the barrel is fixed to the frame and doesn't slide back with the slide after each shot.....
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Old September 24, 2012, 06:11 AM   #8
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I own a C9 model and, while it's not going to win any beauty contests, it goes "bang" every time I pull the trigger. Seems pretty damned accurate too. Certainly a good HD starting point.

That "bang" initiates the "blowback" action that ejects the spent round and chambers a fresh round. Repeat until magazine is empty and slide locks back. Replace magazine and repeat......

btw.....I didn't have to do any tweaking of the mag lips on my Hi-Point. I made sure the gun mags were lubed up before the first outing and it's been fine. Two hundred rounds through it with not one FTF or FTE using both the stock 8 round mag and the optional 10 round mag.
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Old September 24, 2012, 10:29 AM   #9
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The MK19 is both blowback operated AND fires from an open bolt. With a straight blowback action, the barrel is fixed and the recoil moves the slide/bolt to the rear. With a locked-breech action, the barrel remains locked to the slide/bolt for a fraction of a second after firing. This is to ensure the breech doesn't open while the bullet is still in the barrel and pressure is too high. Almost every gun 9mm and above has a locked-breech action: if you pull the slide to the rear you'll notice the barrel moves with the slide for about a 1/4 inch.

Any gun more powerful than a .380 that uses a blowback action is going to need either a very heavy recoil spring, a very heavy slide/bolt (the Hi-Point), or both (the MK19).
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Old September 24, 2012, 04:36 PM   #10
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^ What he said.

In a blowback semi-auto pistol or rifle...

The slide or bolt is all the way forward and the round is chambered. There is no "locking" mechanism that locks the action closed briefly while the bullet travels down the barrel.

When you pull the trigger in a blowback, the hammer or striker fires the bullet... then the shear weight of the slide/bolt and the pressure of the recoil spring cause the recoil to not push the bolt back as quickly as the bullet travels out of the barrel. The slide/bolt slides back then starts to go forward again cambering another round then it closes waiting on you to pull the trigger again.

From the outside it looks like a normal pistol, slide forward as normal.

Many machine guns use blowback... mostly the sub machine guns.

They also fire from an open bolt... bolt is locked to the rear, and no round is chambered.

Pulling the trigger allows the bolt to slide forward and it chambers a round as it goes, the fireing pin is built into the bolt, and as the bolt slams closed, it causes the round to fire. It then works like a Blowback to open the bolt, but the bolt stays rearward.

If a pistol fired like that, it would look like the slide was locked back on an empty magazine, and the trigger would release the slide forward and fire a round.

Youtube has videos that explain it better than words on a page.
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Old September 24, 2012, 05:14 PM   #11
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I have a C9 and a 9mm carbine. Both guns are 100% reliable. The C9 is very accurate. I keep in in the glove box as a back up but wouldnt hesitate to grab it if need be because I trust it. The 9mm carbine is a hoot to shoot and everytime I have it around alot of folks they all want to shoot it. I have a cheap red dot on it and that thing is deadly accurate. Plus the warranty is outstanding. Reliability and accuracy wise you get alot of gun for the money. In the looks dept, not so much.
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Old September 24, 2012, 05:23 PM   #12
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I have a C9 that I bought very slightly used (couldn't tell it from new) for $125. It is very reliable and accurate. They have the best warranty in the business. It has a lifetime warranty regardless of how many owners it has. It might be a little heavy and not the most attractive like my wife but I love them both.
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Old September 24, 2012, 07:15 PM   #13
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LMAO @ the above comment! Haha!

Anyway..

I have a C9 as well. It has yet to jam on me. It goes bang every time I shoot it, and quite accurate. I've put maybe 600-700 rounds through in the year and a half I've had it. Great gun! I would consider the .45 version being that they are relatively inexpensive when it comes to handguns.
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Old September 24, 2012, 07:40 PM   #14
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Thumbs Up

For the money/performance/quality, it is what is and nothing more or less. I have three Hi Point guns, 9&45 handgun and the .45acp carbine which is actually my favorite of the three (I would equate their carbine with the Kel-Tec Sub 2K absent the fold-ability feature--handguns are nothing of the sort as I have never seen anything like them EVER ).

***Quick note, always use the search function as I have found there's usually a plethora on what your inquiring about (I've been there and done that) .

-Cheers
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Old September 25, 2012, 10:16 AM   #15
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When these threads come up, it always seems that the people who actually own and shoot Hi-Points are more satisfied with them than the "experts" who criticize them based on what they read and hear. What can we learn from that observation?

Personally, I am glad that there is a low-cost alternative on the market for people who need a self defense option at a low price point. If it doesn't last for tens of thousands of rounds and doesn't suit someone's delicate sense of aesthetics, but it meets the need for some good people without other options, I am for it.

Osbornk may want to spend some of his gun budget on a comfortable couch and an extra blanket.
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Old September 26, 2012, 01:35 AM   #16
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I'll add to my previous post because I left out the part that I have a Hi-Point, and can speak of personal experience. I bought ia Hi-Point C9 just to see if it could possibly be as bad as all the internet Hi-Pointaphobes say it is. I was pleasantly surprised at not only it's 100% reliability, but also it's excellent accuracy.

Quote:
They have the best warranty in the business.
That's also a point I left out. 100% "no questions asked" warranty. I've never had to use it, but have heard that if you do have a problem it is corrected or the gun replaced quickly, with no hassle, and they even usually throw in a couple extra mags for your trouble!
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:13 AM   #17
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Ok - I'll bite...
Define "excellent accuracy"...

Accurate by my definition is the gun has to be capable of shooting 5 rounds into the X @ 7 yards, with a single hole no larger than three times the diametr of the bullet - in my hands shooting two handed, unsupported and in a reasonable amount of time - 10 to 15 seconds.

People toss around the term "accurate" all the time, w/little or no definition to go along with it.

Then, you find out later on they mean" accurate enough" which translates into "it can shoot 5 rounds into COM @ 7 yards.
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:03 PM   #18
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Ive owned a couple of Hi point 9mms
when they say accurate they mean
if you can hit in the center ring with any other gun
you will hit the center with this one
it wont make you a sniper
you have to have the skill first

if you are looking for a cheap bug out gun, a gun you can put some place in case you need it and dont feel like putting a 1000 dollar gun in a tackle box on the boat, this is your best choice
It maybe mistaken for a battery drill if thieves look inside the box. The damn thing is seventeen shades of UGLY. But then again its a gun, it has a purpose and this one deliverers. I don't conceal carry mine because its just too darn hard to hide a power drill under my shirt, but a smaller gun is perfect.

Hit youtube type in hi point abuse test
if you are not sold then, there is no convincing you.
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Old September 26, 2012, 08:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Define "excellent accuracy"...


Quote:
Ive owned a couple of Hi point 9mms
when they say accurate they mean
if you can hit in the center ring with any other gun
you will hit the center with this one
it wont make you a sniper
you have to have the skill first
GREAT ANSWER!!!
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Old September 27, 2012, 05:38 AM   #20
Hal
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Quote:
when they say accurate they mean
if you can hit in the center ring with any other gun
you will hit the center with this one
Ok Dave, that's the answer I was after.
BTW, "they" (as you used it) doesn't really answer my question.
However, if you change "they" to "I", as in your conclusion is that the Hi Point is able to match the users skill set, then I believe you.

The term" accurate" is used so often here w/out any sort of frame of reference it has little meaning at times.

As I said above w/regards to how I would define "excellent accuracy", that definition is based on using S&W model 10.
A model 10 is quite capable of that level of accuracy.
I'd put a well used but not abused S&W model 10 in the same low cost catagory as a new Hi Point.
Given the coice, hands down, and day of the week (IMHO) the S&W blows away the Hi Point in all respects.

However - finding just the right one @ just the right price takes some doing.

The advantage there goes to Hi Point - which can be had over the counter any time.

As to whether or not I'd ever own one - probably not.
Being retired, I have little in the way of disposable income for one and the Hi Point is a striker fired for number 2.
I really don't care for striker fired. If I were to transition to that, then my choice would be the "other ugly plastic gun" (Glock).
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Old September 27, 2012, 12:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
I'd put a well used but not abused S&W model 10 in the same low cost category as a new Hi Point.
Good luck even finding an abused Mod. 10 for a buck and a half like a brand new Hi-Point that comes with a no questions asked lifetime warranty!!!

Not saying that a good Mod. 10 isn't a much better choice, but the price advantage is still way in favor of the Hi-Point.

P.S. If you find any of those $150 S&W Mod. 10 revolvers let me know. I'm sure a local dealer I know will want all you can find in order to make double his money on the deal.
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Old September 27, 2012, 11:35 PM   #22
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I bought a used but unfired as new C9 about 2 months ago for $140. I peeled the caution sticker off the grip, field striped it, polished the feed ramp(it comes painted the same as the barrel), cleaned and very lightly lubed it. I then looked at the magazine expecting to have to tweak the lips a bit. Didn't have to on this one. The magazine was bone dry though so I sprayed it with clp and cleaned up the excess. I then loaded up the magazine and let it sit for about a week as I had read to do with these due to stiff springs from the factory.

About a week and a half later I finally made it to the range. I put just over 200 rds through it. 100 wally world bulk pack federal 115gr ball. 75ish Winchester white box 115gr ball. And 30ish Monarch 124gr JHP cheapos from Academy. The gun fed and fired flawlessly. It was easily more than combat accurate. I didn't try for any real groups but all first 50 shots or so I could cover the "group" with a standard coffee can lid. After getting the feel of the gun a bit, It wasn't hard to put all 8rds into a softball rapid fire. The only problem I had was hitting the mag release accidentally twice on separate occasions. Both were on the last round of the magazine but they didn't keep the gun from firing. I adjusted my grip slightly and, mindful of the situation, didn't have that problem again. The gun won't fire without a magazine in but this one does fire if the magazine is in most of the way. The mag release button does stick out too far for my liking. Shouldn't be too hard to remedy. Definitely worth noting though!

It is what it is and I like it...for what it is. It's pretty much exactly what I bought it for. A truck, boat, hiking, camping, loaner gun that could save mine or someone else's life. That and I must admit I had to have one just because of the gun snobs that have never shot one but love to dis them all over the net.

For less than $200 I can't think of any other new handgun I could recommend.
I say if it is all someone can afford they should buy it. If they can afford $150 or so more I'd tell them to buy a Ruger P95.

There's lot of info on the net about the C9's minor issues. The magazines seem to be the weak link but are easily fixed(and only $15 btw). I'd polish the feed ramp too. Other than that they go bang when you want them too.
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Old September 27, 2012, 11:43 PM   #23
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I am not a gun snob by any means, or so I like to think, but I personally do not own a Hi-Point. However, that being said, I will never disparage a man for purchasing one, especially if he can't afford anything better to protect himself, home, or loved ones.

Case in point:

A fraternity brother of mine is in grad school in Atlanta, not much income, his fiance is an intern at a local Atlanta hospital, no income, and there apartment isn't in the best part of town. He and I went to a gun show, and dspite my advice, he purchased a NIB C-9 for $125, it being Sunday afternoon and all.

The next weekend, we took it out for a spin at the range. The thing ran like a champ with everything we put in it, reloads, UMC FMJs, som Critical Defense stuff I had, some Wolf junk, everything. After that, he loaded it up with a mag full of gold dots. To this day, that gun is loaded with that same mag, and I'd be willing to bet all the coffee in Columbia that if my brother ever needed it, th at C-9 would go and get the job done.
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Old September 28, 2012, 10:15 AM   #24
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Not to hijack the thread but the H&K MP5 submachine gun operates from a closed bolt which contributes to it's remarkable accuracy. Now back to you regularly scheduled programing
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Old September 28, 2012, 06:02 PM   #25
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SPEMack618

...You might want to tell your fraternity brother to take the gun out once a year, disassemble it, clean it, and lube it. A yearly trip to the range would be good too!

The only problem I have had with my C9 is after I let it sit for a year in the safe. It got dry and on the next range trip is failed to feed twice (out of 100 rounds). Of course this was after a total of 450 rounds without cleaning in the year and a half before this incident so this was not too much of a surprise.

I have complimented my C9 with an Hi-Point 995 carbine. Got the 10 round mags for the carbine that also work in the pistol! This carbine always attracts attention at the range!

Love my Hi-points!
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