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Old September 30, 2012, 09:09 PM   #51
mrt949
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Sw mp 40 c .Or my Ruger sp101 357 mag .

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Old September 30, 2012, 09:11 PM   #52
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rodeo roy

Hey man, it could happen. If he runs and continues to fire, or vice versa which is highly possible once the fight starts, I live first and justify second.
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Old September 30, 2012, 09:34 PM   #53
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I keep a dpms ar10 in the trunk of my car
Ooh, that's sweet. My FAL is a SAR-48HB, so it's a sweet shooter. Right now it's sporting a 4-16x50 scope, so it's even heavier than normal, probably about 13 lbs.
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:14 AM   #54
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Why carry compact? Good question. Never made any sense to me. It's like driving one of those little tiny French cars. No thanks.
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:47 AM   #55
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Ha...never thought I'd see so many similar people to my method of full sized carry. I always carry full sized. Smallest gun is my G19
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Old October 1, 2012, 10:05 AM   #56
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There are opportunity costs for everything we do and dress and carry have theirs. I carry a mouse gun in my pocket when in shorts & T-shirt. Why? My EDC is too large to carry in a pocket, and at other times I dress to meet the needs of carrying a larger weapon. Dockers and a Tommy Bahama shirt. IMO, Any gun is better than no gun in a gun fight.
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Old October 1, 2012, 10:12 AM   #57
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Yes, really. Not saying its likely but its a scenario where accuracy would be critical. My point is that dynamic situations can arise and go from 10 ft to 50 yds and still be self defense situation. When I was in the military, I saw all kinds of situations where the weapon I had became
inadequate in a hurry. Defending my life AND THE LIVES OF OTHERS and staying within the law, I want every advantage I can have at my disposal, because frankly, criminals and terrorists don't care. I DO
Unless the robber is kidnapping someone you just committed a felony.
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Old October 1, 2012, 04:17 PM   #58
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Your point is ok, but my position is if I get off a couple of shots and it justs wounds the bad guy and he runs, and shots over his shoulder at me then am I really trying to stop a threat or attacking a bad guy in flight mode. Where I live gun crime is common and really people don't even get detained by the police for shooting a bad guy car jacker, stick up man, or home invader, they may get questioned, but they will be on the six o clock news telling the story, but shooting a fleeing suspect is gonna be a problem. Besides if the bad guy backs up off me long enough for me to flee, I'm running, driving, scampering away from the scene myself, defeneding your self does not just mean shoot it out, it can mean get the hell out of dodge.
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Old October 1, 2012, 04:32 PM   #59
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Fullsize just based on your post I can see you are hyper viligant as you say, but consder this. The fine line between defending yourself and being a person looking for a fight. Somebody in a fleeing car is not a threat. A person in a crowded public place shooting people maybe a threat to you but for me if I can get out of the area I'm getting out, fast; and no one can complain about me not trying to kill the bad guy, I will always pick flight over fight and I think any smart tactican will do the same, fight is always the last resort. To me it sounds like you prepare to fight first, and that to has it's place. To each his own.
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Old October 1, 2012, 06:08 PM   #60
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I wear shorts nearly 365 days a year. An LCP is one of the few things that is easy to conceal and can be quickly pocketed in its holster.

It's not bulky, doesn't limit my movements, and I don't have a heavy gun rubbing up against my back all day long... some days I wouldn't CCW because it's too hot, the gun too bulky.

Subcompact lets you have a gun when you normally wouldn't carry one. That's worth it to me. That and the LCP is shockingly accurate at 5-10 yards--if you don't mind recoil.
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Old October 2, 2012, 01:09 AM   #61
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I respect your statement about retreating with a gunman present. But cant outrun bullets, real life has taught me that. I couldn't live with myself running by women and children being shot as I save my own skin. I'm not looking to shoot anyone, I pray I don't have to everyday before I leave home. My opinion as an armed citizen is to be the ones to hold the line until the police arrive so that others may live. I call it selfless defense. The robber retreating scenario, I agree with you to a degree, but what if he's a kidnapper? Maybe actually being a victim of a violent situation will change your mind, lord forbid that happens to you. But it changed me, If I would've ran, I wouldn't be talking to you guys. True, most situations START at 10 ft or so, but first pop of the gun, 10 ft becomes 50yds in a flash, with the perp shooting at you until he's out. That's real reality, you know, stuff that we don't read about.
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Old October 2, 2012, 05:42 AM   #62
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Fullsize,

In a pistol, I prefer a 4" barrel (aka "service pistol") like a Colt Commander or my 4" S&W 39's. These are reasonably flat and comfortable with a good holster but more difficult to conceal than a smaller gun. Smaller for me is a S&W 649 .357 or a S&W 3914NL (black "Ladysmith") and these come out when weather dictates minimal cover over an ample torso.

Re: Self-Defense distances
I was originally taught to shoot at 25 yards and now consider that to be the "max" distance for any kind of engagement if there is a choice. Some here think that's too far to justify SD. Think of a major arterial city street. These often have 3 lanes in each direction, plus a median. At 12' per lane, 6x12=72 feet give or take the median width (or a 4-lane highway with turn lanes).

Other distances...
I've heard some say 5-10 yards is max. Really? Let's move to the parking lot.

5 Yards = 15 feet = the length of a midsize car like a Chevy Cruze. If you carry, I would hope that you're practiced enough to make hits at that distance. In fact, if you can't score hits at 5 yards, carry pepper spray instead.

10 Yards = 30 feet = Just less than the length of 2 Pickup Trucks.
My Dodge truck is 17 feet bumper to bumper. Two of these trucks fill up the parking slots nose-to-nose at most retail lots. Let's call that 35-feet or just over 11 yards. That is not an unrealistic distance to shoot if the thug retreated behind the end of one car to shoot at you and you're behind your own.

15 Yards = 45 feet - about the distance from the trunk of your car, past the car parked in front of you and across the next aisle to the trunk of another car. In other words, it's a common place distance we're all familiar with.

20 Yards = 60 feet - extend the target position to the front of that other car in the above example. I'll let you work out the rest.

The purpose of this post was to show people that many distances we are familiar with are within 25 yards. Limiting yourself to 5 or 10 yards is rather like saying you can play the piano as long as you don't go near the high notes.
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Old October 2, 2012, 07:14 AM   #63
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i think first you need to decide which is more important to you concealability or comfort and round count. I have friends that carry 1911's everyday and they dont have any issues me on the other hand am more of a pocket 380 guy most of the time unless its cold out and i can wear a jacket.
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Old October 2, 2012, 07:49 AM   #64
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i think first you need to decide which is more important to you concealability or comfort and round count. I have friends that carry 1911's everyday and they dont have any issues me on the other hand am more of a pocket 380 guy most of the time unless its cold out and i can wear a jacket.
Excellent post. Each person's preference is unique to their circumstances, and can in fact change due to weather or dress. Historically I had a 1911 ultra carry and was comfortable with the size. Nevertheless I had to adjust my clothing accordingly, especially as in Texas the weather is summer, hot summer, surface of the sun, and only slightly summmer.

I've switched over to an M&Pc as the recoil in such a light frame was incrteasingly aggravating an old injury making shooting it difficult. As such I can understand the 1911 crowd, the midsize crowd, and the small carry/microcarry crowds. Its what you are comfortable with, and hopefully it will never be needed.
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:24 PM   #65
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I don't know if anybody listens to rap music, but I do I love all music because it gives insight of the personality of the individual and the people that listen to the music and base their lives off of what their favorite artist "claims" that he does. I say all of that to say this; street punks know what glocks, sig sauers , and kimbers are. Extended clips and lasers are the norm in these lyrics. Sad but true. These thugs are out gunning the police and even swat sometimes. A lot of my friends and family arecops. A buddy of mine told me he took a serbu super shorty off a 14 yr old drug dealer. I know, pistol versus a shotgun you're beat anyway. I do respect that you carry what you want, but even 9mm is becoming obselete. That's why I have a 33rd mag on me until I get the g22 out of lay away.
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:55 PM   #66
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I was wondering what people actually thought "compact" was. To some, a Colt Commander is a compact. I personally think a 4" barrel gun is just about right, at least in 9mm, maybe even in .45. But that reminds me of one of my persistant complaints.

I wish pistols generally had longer barrels. If present trends continue, a conventional pistol will have a 2" barrel and a 30 round magazine. My idea of the perfect size is either a 1903 Browning or a 1903 FN. They look just the same but the FN is actually larger and was chambered for a (slightly) more powerful cartridge. A Browning Hi-Power is pretty good in that respect. But mine is just one voice.

At any rate, Mr. BillCA brings up an interesting point. Most pistol shooting is probably done at indoor ranges. At least it is around here, though Clark Brothers, beyond Warrenton, VA, has an outdoor range for pistols. All of the indoor ranges I've seen were only a maxium of 25 yards. Take your tape measure and go around your property and start measuring distances. It will be interesting. The distance to the path into the woods behind my house is 25 yards. But once I go into the woods, 25 yards seems like no distance at all, some places. Inside the house, it's another story, although here at work, there's probably some straight line-of-sight distances of more than 100 yards and indoors, too.
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Old October 2, 2012, 02:55 PM   #67
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So a single anecdotal instance of a kid having a serbu super shorty and the knowledge of firearms brands and accessories from rap lyrics, makes police outgunned and the 9mm obsolete?

Do you have a source for these "sad but true" claims beyond rap lyrics and unverifiable stories?
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Old October 2, 2012, 03:07 PM   #68
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Many poster refer to things that don't often happen, but may be real case in the area they live. I stated in another post that I live in the most dangerous city in America, bar none. Gun violence is a daily, regular, commonplace thing here; sad but true. The citzens that are armed and take action in jack moves, stick ups, and b&e's put down bad guys at a staggering rate, at least twice a month or more we see them on the news telling how the bad guy kicked in the door and they blew them out the window or grandpa showing off his grandkids saying it was no way he was gonna give his car up cause he had to take lil Johnny and lil Suzy to school in the morning so he shot first. Sad to say lots of people are getting shot cause they did not have a gun and or had to trade shots in close quarters. Almost everytime it's an up close affair, do you have rampaging gunman in mall parking lot, office complex, at the movies, yeah sure. I agree that 10 feet will become 50 yards in a hurry cause I'm running away after I get off a couple when that is an option.

I know we have taken a side track but to the orignal point and the bottom line for me is, is each gun we carry has a useful porpose and the tool you pick is the one that fits your carry style and your needs (or precieved needs) the best, and I precieve my needs as up close.
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Old October 2, 2012, 04:50 PM   #69
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I started out carrying full-sized pistols, but moved to compacts for pocket carry, so that I can stick with one method of carry in any weather or clothing choice.
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Old October 2, 2012, 05:15 PM   #70
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57 degrees Friday!!
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Old October 2, 2012, 06:08 PM   #71
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Why carry compact?
Simple. At 25 yards, I can shoot approximately the same group size with my full size, full weight Baby Eagle or P9 Kahr.

The Baby Eagle causes my drawers to droop.

The Kahr, well, not so much drooping.
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Old October 2, 2012, 06:09 PM   #72
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No verifiable stories, Just life, war stories fron cop friends,a few military experiences, not any links or anything verifiable. Sorry boss, I would love to be able to provide you the info, but it seems like you're a see it to believe it kind of guy. But take the Colorado shooting, columbine, jonesboro, Arizona shooting for example. Or the many college campus or nightclub shootings as reference.
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Old October 2, 2012, 06:27 PM   #73
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That is the point of the topic. Your reason is what I was seeking. I know most of my scenarios are far fetched but they are possible. Up close, I want the most muzzle energy and bullet impact as I can get, a fullsize with the same ammo as a compact gives more thump. I live in a part of the country where violent crime is also high. I have been a victim but I survived because I was armed. it was at about 20yds and I was a victim of mistaken identity, he was persuing me. I took cover and stopped the situation before he got within 10ft. Because I had 4" .357 gp100. It gave me plenty of power. Didn't want to share that. But I hope you see the advantages being able to create and maintain space.
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Old October 2, 2012, 07:54 PM   #74
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No verifiable stories, Just life, war stories fron cop friends,a few military experiences, not any links or anything verifiable. Sorry boss, I would love to be able to provide you the info, but it seems like you're a see it to believe it kind of guy. But take the Colorado shooting, columbine, jonesboro, Arizona shooting for example. Or the many college campus or nightclub shootings as reference.
Considering in the specific cases, the shooters either committed suicide, were already subdued, or were apprehended by the police without an exchange of gunfire, it's hard to see those as examples of the police being "out gunned" or 9mm being obsolete as in 2 of the 4 shootings 9mm firearms were used.

Furthermore, planned mass shootings are exceptions rather than the rule, and do not provide valid information as to what the everyday criminals are doing.
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Old October 2, 2012, 08:13 PM   #75
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True again. My scenarios are focused towarr the out of the ordinary cases. And thry are all a what would you trust, if its not you're everyday carry, then why carry it? God forbid, but the next cnn breaking news story could happen with you present. I know everything I have said is out of the ordinary, which you seem to state just how unlikely they are. But, IF it happens to you, what would you want on your person, what you shoot best, or conceal best. The scenarios are just to spark brainstorming not an analysis of my thoughts.
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