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Old September 9, 2012, 05:22 PM   #1
manta49
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Real Danger.

There are a lot of posts on the forum the threat of violence how many guns they keep in the house for use against perceived threats. Some times i think some get a bit carried away threat and how to deal with it. Where i live there is and was real reason to feel threatened. Yet i never heard the sort of some would say over the top concern about getting attacked ect here.

If some on the forum are that concerned about being attacked in America how would they have survived here. Most civilians were not allowed to carry firearms.

Some will say they wold leave. Lets say due to your circumstances you could not leave. Would you be nerves wrecks.

Some stats below remember the population in N Ireland is around two million.

Fact Sheet on the conflict in and about Northern Ireland
· Every day of the year marks the anniversary of someone’s death
as a result of conflict in and about Northern Ireland.1
· 3,725 people were killed as a result of the conflict. 2
· Approximately 47,541 people were injured.3
· There were 36,923 shootings.4
· 16,209 bombings were conducted.5
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Old September 9, 2012, 05:44 PM   #2
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I'd be a criminal and obtain a firearm if I lived somewhere it was forbidden. If I lived in an area where over 36k shootings happened you better believe I'd have a handgun. Legal or otherwise. By the grace of god I don't have to make that decision.
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Old September 9, 2012, 05:48 PM   #3
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I get the point of what you're saying, however I have a few questions.

Those stats you state cover roughly a 30 year period correct?
Since the end of the '90s has the violence continued at the same pace as before?
Have you compared those stats to a large American city, such as NYC, Chicago or LA?
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Old September 9, 2012, 06:01 PM   #4
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Thankfully things are a lot quieter now. But their are still some murders.

No comparison's but i will look into it.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; September 9, 2012 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Language
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Old September 9, 2012, 06:12 PM   #5
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So, with parts of American having unfortunately similar violence stats(minus bombings), does that not make the concern for some valid?
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Old September 9, 2012, 06:19 PM   #6
manta49
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There are valid concerns i think some get overly concerned. The thing is i am always being told that the UK has more violent attacks than America. Now some are saying that some city's in America are as violent and have as many shooting incidents as N Ireland did in the past.
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Old September 9, 2012, 06:50 PM   #7
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3,725 murders over roughly 10,000 days ... roughly 1 every 3 days or so. In an entire country. The City of Chicago has averaged more than 1 murder a day for as long as I can remember.... in the 90's, IIRC, it was around 3/day. And all this in a place where only cops, crooks, and the politically connected (but I repeat myself!) can carry a gun.....
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Old September 9, 2012, 07:53 PM   #8
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Manta49 wrote:
Quote:
There are valid concerns i think some get overly concerned.
There are people who are perceived to get overly concerned about a lot of things- pollution, nukes, disease, hunger, floods, drought, war, etc. I think it hardly matters the flag one lives under. Seems to me to be human nature for "some" to get "overly concerned" about a great many things. Since today it's us Yanks you've set your attentions to, what would you propose that we do, as a whole society of course to more properly balance the scales of peace, harmony, and good will?

Do you see a good blanket type solution? Or are you more or less simply letting us know you have a particularly acute grasp on things and doing the neighborly thing by keeping us as well informed as yourself?
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Old September 9, 2012, 08:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Some times i think some get a bit carried away threat and how to deal with it.
It'll probably help if you remember that this is a site populated by posters who basically LOVE guns for whatever reasons... maybe grew up with lots of friends and relatives who had guns... read a lot of Field and Stream magazines... watched a lot of shoot-'em-up movies and TV shows... etc. etc...

So we basically LIKE thinking about guns and talking about guns because we're gun enthusiasts generally...

To me, "getting a bit carried away" is not a problem in itself. It's all a matter of degree.

For example, I enjoy just thinking about the SCIENCE of guns 'n bullets 'n ballistics 'n velocities 'n calibers 'n even wound channels 'n penetration and such...

It's interesting to me... Now some might think I'm kinda' obsessed with all this thinking but, to me, it's just another hobby...

For example... I also like baseball and thinking about the SCIENCE of bats 'n balls 'n ballistics 'n velocities 'n types of pitches and even ball players' injuries and how those injuries affect their play, etc. etc...

So, I believe my thought-patterns are healthy... and I'm known as a pretty well-balanced and likeable person.

Who else can I banter with about guns than other gun enthusiasts?

Threats?... I guess I like to be prepared. I take it seriously but I don't feel I take it TOO seriously.

Another factor; history has shown that some pretty wild "curve balls" have occasionally thrown many civilizations quickly into some very dire straits. I feel that many of us on here have reflected quite a bit on THAT truth and that it guides many of our subsequent thoughts and actions. When the "chips are down" guns and gun-proficiency become highly prioritized.
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Old September 9, 2012, 08:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Do you see a good blanket type solution? Or are you more or less simply letting us know you have a particularly acute grasp on things and doing the neighborly thing by keeping us as well informed as yourself?

Will you marry me?
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Old September 12, 2012, 08:20 AM   #11
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I have actually read very few posts on TFL forums about keeping multiple firearms in their house to combat against potential threats.

Me, like many others here, have multiple guns not because of any perceived threat, but because we just like guns. Some people like mechanical watches. Other people like beanie babies. I like guns. I have one or two for self defense, and the rest are for entertainment.
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Old September 12, 2012, 08:39 AM   #12
RedBowTies88
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are a lot of posts on the forum the threat of violence how many guns they keep in the house for use against perceived threats. Some times i think some get a bit carried away threat and how to deal with it. Where i live there is and was real reason to feel threatened. Yet i never heard the sort of some would say over the top concern about getting attacked ect here.

If some on the forum are that concerned about being attacked in America how would they have survived here. Most civilians were not allowed to carry firearms.

Some will say they wold leave. Lets say due to your circumstances you could not leave. Would you be nerves wrecks.

Some stats below remember the population in N Ireland is around two million.
The situation you're describing isn't unique to eurpoe believe it or not there are parts of "america" (and I use that term loosely) where you also cannot carry a weapon to protect yourself and your family.

Am i concerned about being attacked? Hell yes. Thats like the goverment issuing shirts for everyone to wear that says "Hey! Rob me, I can't carry a gun/knife/knuckles/pellet rifle/slingshot to even hope to protect myself with!"

Now that I've seen the light of the real america and been able to carry in other states I feel even less protected at home. The deminor and actions of people are entirely different in other states where the law abiding citizens can protect themselves.

Take Camdem and Philadelphia for instance. Its the same city that just happens to cross over state lines and a river. The philadelphia side is much larger and has a lot more people...yet the violent crime rate is DRASTICALLY lower then Camden. Take a walk through camden...the scumbags and gangbangers walk around like they own the place (becuase they do) they yell at people, try to intise fights, show no worry for anyone challenging them. Now philly on the other hand... sure there's a lot of dirtbags but for the most part they leave you the hell alone...why? Becuase they don't wanna look down the barrel of a gun and they KNOW that's a real possibility.
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Old September 12, 2012, 03:35 PM   #13
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Quote. It'll probably help if you remember that this is a site populated by posters who basically LOVE guns for whatever reasons... maybe grew up with lots of friends and relatives who had guns... read a lot of Field and Stream magazines... watched a lot of shoot-'em-up movies and TV shows... etc. etc.

I love guns to. that's why i am on this site.
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Old September 14, 2012, 09:44 PM   #14
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Manta, Im not sure i understand what you asking..

Let me say this though if I had to live were I could not have arms then I would plan accordingly.. Depends on what legal but alternative weapons can be almost anything.... I would also make an effort to understand what the main threats are and try to lower the risk...
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:35 PM   #15
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manta49, please understand that the United States has single states with many times the land area and many times the population of Ireland, let alone Northern Ireland. Some areas (mostly rural) are comparatively safe. Other areas (both urban and suburban) are not safe.

Even places that were once safe are now not safe. I now live in the same house in which I grew up; I moved back after the death of my mother 18 years ago. When I was a kid, we didn't need to lock the doors at night, and we never locked a car in the driveway. Now, we lock the car INSIDE the locked garage -- there have been numerous incidents of cars being stolen out of garages.

Our town (a suburban town of less than 10,000 population) has had home invasions, armed stand-offs between nut cases and the police department, arrests of neighbors receiving interstate shipments of illegal drugs, another neighbor was running a motorcycle chop shop out of his garage down the street (complete with false walls and hidden compartments in the garage) ... you name it, we've got it. And the cities in my state are orders of magnitude worse.

Three years ago I read about a horrible crime in the bucolic state of Connecticut. It attracted my attention because the location was very near to where my brother lived. That was also a peaceful, suburban town where people felt safe in their homes at night.

Bad choice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshir...vasion_murders
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Old September 15, 2012, 07:41 PM   #16
KMAX
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Many of us keep weapons because we don't the real danger level to reach that of Northern Ireland or Camden or some of the other really dangerous places in the world.

As for myself, most of my guns are primarily a hobby. If it were for defense only, I would probably have only three. One handgun, one rifle, and one shotgun would be enough for any conceivable threat to me.
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Last edited by KMAX; September 15, 2012 at 07:49 PM.
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Old September 15, 2012, 09:40 PM   #17
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I have a torque wrench on top of my refrigerator right now.

I don't have any need to torque anything to spec at the moment. But if I did have the need, and I didn't have that wrench, I'd be kinda out of luck.

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd say my need to torque something tonight is about the same probability as somebody will invade my home.

But there's loose nuts all over, and you never can tell if one will find you, some night
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Old September 16, 2012, 01:41 AM   #18
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manta49
Fact Sheet on the conflict in and about Northern Ireland
· Every day of the year marks the anniversary of someone’s death
as a result of conflict in and about Northern Ireland.1
· 3,725 people were killed as a result of the conflict. 2
· Approximately 47,541 people were injured.3
· There were 36,923 shootings.4
· 16,209 bombings were conducted.5
3,725 people killed -- total. That was for how many years?

Based on this article from the The Guardian (UK news rag), for the year 2010 the United States saw

8,775 murders by firearms;
1,704 murders by knives or cutting implements;
540 murders by blunt instruments;
745 murders by fists or feet;
1,232 murders by other means

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...crime-us-state

That's a total of 12,996 murders in just one year. That was 2010. For 2012, just for the city of Chicago, there were 294 people murdered as of July 23. At that rate, Chicago will see 504 murders just in this year.

Take a look at this chart of violent crime in various U.S. cities for 2010. These are rates per 100,000 population, not total numbers of crimes, in order to better compare how dangerous various cities are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...0_-_250,000%29

Being prepared is not the same as being paranoid. If one lives in an area with a high water table and a leaky basement, it would be prudent to install a pump. If no pump is available ... then you don't install a pump, and you go on abut your daily life and hope for the best.

How is a gun as protection any different? We can have guns, so we prepare. You can't have guns, so you hope.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; September 16, 2012 at 01:47 AM.
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Old September 16, 2012, 06:28 AM   #19
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I distrust that count of "murders" by the Guardian very much

The CDC's website reports that in 2009 there were a bit over 11,000 deaths from ALL firearm related causes in the US

2010 records are not available at the CDC's site but I suspect that 8775

can anyone verify?
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Old September 16, 2012, 11:11 AM   #20
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I remember the story of a Family in Northern Ireland who finally got fed up with the violence and bloodshed, the shootings and bombings.

The Family studied the World and the various Countries and the Governments of those Countries and the relative safety of each Country for it's Citizens.

Finally they decided to move their Family to one of the most remote and safest places on Planet Earth where no weapons or firearms would be needed and they could live as a Family in peace and harmony for the rest of their lives, far away from the rest of the World and it's violence and it's problems.

They moved to the Falkland Islands in 1981.
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Old September 17, 2012, 12:14 AM   #21
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I'd very much like to see a breakdown of who perpetrated the violence in Northern Ireland and against whom it was perpetrated because the raw numbers can be misleading without context. I would not be surprised to find out that the majority of the violence stems from attacks and retaliation between opposing paramilitary groups and that most of those killed or attacked were, in one way or another, affiliated with one of those various groups. I would further be unsurprised to learn that violence against ordinary people who are not affiliated or involved with the IRA, UVF, British military, or other such group are at much lower risk and that violence against such people is relatively rare.

In the United States, however, we do not and have not been in a state of civil war for nearly 150 years so violence between organized paramilitary groups is quite uncommon (about the closest you'll come is violence between criminal gangs in large cities). However, random acts of violent crime is becoming increasingly common and thus many people who are not involved with paramilitary groups, organized crime, or other such dangerous affiliations still have a very legitimate need to own and carry a gun for self-defense.

A similar comparison would be between the United States today and the United States of the 1920's and 1930's. The violent crime rate of the 20's and 30's was fairly high due to Prohibition-era organized crime and Depression-era motorized bandits. While this period of time is often thought of as "lawless," what many people do not realize is that the violence was overwhelmingly between the criminals and police or amongst the criminals themselves. The average law-abiding citizen of 20's and 30's America actually had very little to fear in comparison to the average law-abiding citizen of today's America. So, as you can see, context makes a huge difference.
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Old September 17, 2012, 04:03 AM   #22
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I grew up in the NJ/NY/PA area which has a few of the most violent cities in the US and where private gun ownership was/ is severely resticted. I now live in a semi rural area in the south where everyone it seems owns guns and violent crimes like murder and assault are few and far between. Do the math...
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Old September 17, 2012, 04:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
As for myself, most of my guns are primarily a hobby. If it were for defense only, I would probably have only three. One handgun, one rifle, and one shotgun would be enough for any conceivable threat to me.
Guns were a hobby and are a hobby, but my first purchase(s) were just as your quote describes. However, that is the bare minimum, I would want your list plus a mousegun as an example as a "backup" gun and/or NY reload, I had to get a weapon for the wife, and to start I like having a HD and SD handgun or I could say a CCW handgun but also a 'outdoors' gun(bigger, longer barrel). Therefore, I use your list and add three pistols.

That is how I started anyways...random order: shotgun, rifle, three revolvers, and a derringer

PS- I have always preferred revolvers even as a child when I couldn't own a weapon("If it's not broken, don't fix it.") Everyone of those six firearms serves a separate purpose if I broke it down that fine.
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Old September 17, 2012, 04:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
I grew up in the NJ/NY/PA area which has a few of the most violent cities in the US and where private gun ownership was/ is severely resticted. I now live in a semi rural area in the south where everyone it seems owns guns and violent crimes like murder and assault are few and far between. Do the math...
It truly is a wonder why they can't change their tone! Are you talking philly? I always figured PA was pretty well rounded besides there as much(sortof like NYC and part of NY). I Know MA, NJ, NY, and HI are bad though(as far as I am concerned).
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Old September 17, 2012, 01:22 PM   #25
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Quote. Webleymkv. I'd very much like to see a breakdown of who perpetrated the violence in Northern Ireland and against whom it was perpetrated because the raw numbers can be misleading without context. I would not be surprised to find out that the majority of the violence stems from attacks and retaliation between opposing paramilitary groups and that most of those killed or attacked were, in one way or another, affiliated with one of those various groups. I would further be unsurprised to learn that violence against ordinary people who are not affiliated or involved with the IRA, UVF, British military, or other such group are at much lower risk and that violence against such people is relatively rare.


More than 3,600 people were killed during the Troubles in Northern Ireland. Between 1969 and the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 about 2,000 civilians, 1,000 members of the security forces and 600 paramilitaries died.


Unfortunately most were civilians.
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