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Old September 26, 2012, 11:52 AM   #26
Technosavant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesK
It did for an Archduke and started a World War. Pretty lethal, that.
That was actually a .32ACP out of a FN 1910, not a .380ACP.

Considering the .32 is seen as even weaker than the .380, it took out a third rate member of royalty, kicked off a world war that itself killed well over 10 million people, gave the Bolsheviks in Russia enough support to topple the Tsars, produced a "peace" that set things up for round II less than twenty years later complete with the Holocaust (between WWII and the Holocaust we're probably talking somewhere in the 50-70 million fatality range), and none of this is even considering assorted purges in communist nations (remember, that all got started with the Bolsheviks- take that away and the world may have never seen a flat out communist government), well, that's some pretty impressive killing power out of a mouse gun cartridge.

The catch is, these rounds (.32, .380, etc.) aren't death rays, and although they can cause a whole heap of trouble, they may or may not stop someone from causing further harm.

It will work great on people who want to not get shot (or get shot again) more than they want to cause harm. If somebody is whacked out on something, then even the more powerful handgun rounds may be found wanting.
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Old September 26, 2012, 12:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacefulgary View Post
Can the .380 be lethal?

Yes.


Can you rely upon it to QUICKLY STOP an aggressive human bent on causing you bodily harm?

No.
Can you shed some light on what handgun round can, particularly in a conceal carry piece
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Old September 26, 2012, 12:28 PM   #28
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Lethal enough for me to carry one with confidence.

Lethal enough that I would prefer to not be shot with one.
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Old September 26, 2012, 03:04 PM   #29
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taurus 738 tcp (380) or the ruger 10/22

I can't decide which one I want plz help... there both 199.99
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Old September 26, 2012, 03:47 PM   #30
Mike Irwin
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Wait wait wait, guys...

There is one absolutely, entirely, and 100% lethal handgun round, and we're all glossing over it.

The .45 ACP.

How do we know?

It's all over the internet how positively lethal it is, often even if it misses.

And if it's on the internet, it has to be true!

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Old September 26, 2012, 04:55 PM   #31
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I can't decide which one I want plz help... there both 199.99
Just buy them both, you will eventually. If it were me, I'd buy the Bersa first.
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Old September 26, 2012, 05:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
The .45 ACP.

How do we know?

It's all over the internet how positively lethal it is, often even if it misses
I hear that the shockwave alone with blow a man's eyes out through his ears

Between the 738 and the 10/22 - it depends on your intended use. Want a target gun - get the 10/22. Want a defensive gun, get the Taurus

I highly recommend the 10/22 - save your $ for a Bersa if you want a good inexpensive .380

ETA: But, understand that handguns are not really all that lethal to begin with, even the legendary and venerable .45 ACP that Mike blasphemed against
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Last edited by Stressfire; September 26, 2012 at 05:12 PM.
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:24 PM   #33
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IMO the .380 is an aceptable minimum for SD. It is by far better than nothing or a .22 LR.
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:29 PM   #34
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All I know is that if I unload all 13 rounds of .380 Critical Defense, it is going to hurt like hell!

Just sayin .... Ya know?
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:30 PM   #35
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The .380 is the smallest cartridge that most will carry for self defense. It certainly isn't a .45 acp, but the .380 lends itself to small pocket guns that allow you to carry a gun when larger guns won't do.

As with any gun, shot placement is key and a .380 gives you less of a margin for error than some of the more powerful handguns.
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Old September 26, 2012, 07:05 PM   #36
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Wait, wait, wait Mike Irwin. I think you are behind the times. I hear-tell that the 45 acp is an old fart that can't kill a salamander. Nowadays, the internet tells me that the real savage is the 9mm. With the new-fangled bullet designs, it is better than anything out there. I understand that if you are attacked, you can shoot it the opposite way and it will go around the world and blow the guys head completely off from behind. I think if the 9mm had a proper name, it would be Chuck Norris.

Other than that supernatural round, the 380 obviously is lethal, but has penetration issues. I've got a box of Buffalo Bore 100gr FNHC that I keep in my 380 Mustang to give it as much "oomph" as possible.
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Old September 26, 2012, 07:34 PM   #37
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After shooting feral dogs ,woodchucks, squirrels I was very UNDERimpressed and gave it up for a 9mm. Considering that there are now small 9mm pistols there's no need for a 380 !
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Old September 27, 2012, 05:16 AM   #38
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In my younger days, I have shot a few animals when living on a farm in the summer. Dogs, racoons, ground hogs etc. I remember shooting a racoon that was up in a tree. I was the first living creature I had ever shot with a .357 magnum revolver. I expected it to get blown right out of the tree. I was really surprised when it took the whole cylinder full to get that racoon on the ground.

On the opposite end, I have shot 300 lb pigs in the kill pen with a 22 rimfire that dropped them where they stood.

It is where you make the hole that determines the lethality. I would say a .380 is quite lethal when you use it to make the hole in the right place.
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Old September 27, 2012, 05:57 AM   #39
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Well I don't know about you all but I would rather have a .380 than have to throw sticks and stones. What people have to understand about ballistics is that its not the round itself that makes it lethal but more so where that bullet is placed and at what angles.
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Old September 27, 2012, 06:04 AM   #40
Hal
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Quote:
taurus 738 tcp (380) or the ruger 10/22

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't decide which one I want plz help... there both 199.99
Get the Ruger 10/22.

The .380 acp is pretty much a .38 Special in a small compact semi auto package.
It's a step above the .32 acp and under the 9mm Luger.
Up until the last deacade, there wasn't all that much of a selection of small ".380 size" semi auto's in 9mm Luger to choose from.
That's changed and now there's quite a few 9mm's out there that are similar in size.

.380 ammunition is all sorts of crazy expensive compared to 9mm.
It's also somewhat unpleast to shoot because the guns tend to be on the small side and the .380 is a blowback action.

W/the 10/22, you'll get a whole lot mre bang for your buck.
You can shoot quite a bit while you put away money for something more substancial than a .380 - such as a sub compact 9mm.


lapetrarca53 said:
Quote:
Interesting that this post comes up now. I'm considering getting a .380 for SD.
Check out the small 9mm's instead.
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Old September 27, 2012, 07:26 AM   #41
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Remember that James Bond carried a 380, and the Israeli Mossad used 22lr as their "assassination" round, and a 380 is larger than that. As others have stated, I don't think too many folks keep a 380 as their go-to gun in the middle of the night (assuming that they own more than one gun) but for me, the 380 Ruger LCP with 6+1 rounds in a tiny, easy to conceal package is a better choice than my other "small" gun, a S&W640 with only 5 rounds. But honestly, if I decided on what to use for personal defense based upon how accurately I shoot it, I would rely on my 10-round S&W 4-inch 22lr revolver with which I am extremely accurate. But don't expect to get a definitive answer to your question here, since there is no absolutely right answer.
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:23 AM   #42
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I thought Bond carried a Walther PPK in .32 ACP in most of his movies after being forced to surrender his Beretta .25.
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:35 AM   #43
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About the .380 round, I never could figure out why there are no "super-capacity" .380 handguns out there. I bet you could get 20-30% more cartridges in a magazine compared to 9mm. That means we really should be seeing 25 round, full-sized .380's. Now, that would be something I would be interested in!
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:37 AM   #44
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Although self-protection with the .380 is the issue with this post. I wonder why when I think in terms of a very close body shot with a handgun on a deer, my mind shouts: Whoa!...on anything smaller than a .38 Super. For those who say that a .380 is adequate for shooting a human in self-protection, how is it that shooting a deer with the the same round would be somehow inadequate (assuming that they would say that)? Unless of course, a deer has some magical physiological property of being immune to weaker handgun cartridges. Or, is it alright to only injure and maim a human where it is not alright to injure and maim a deer? Do you see where I am going here?
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:44 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skans:
About the .380 round, I never could figure out why there are no "super-capacity" .380 handguns out there. I bet you could get 20-30% more cartridges in a magazine compared to 9mm. That means we really should be seeing 25 round, full-sized .380's. Now, that would be something I would be interested in!
Since the .380 and 9mm cartridges are the same diameter, both cartridges will occupy the same magazine volume equally. IOW, a 15 round 9mm magazine could hold no more than 15 rounds of .380.
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Old September 27, 2012, 09:05 AM   #46
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How lethal depends on where you put the bullet, same with any other round. I know of one instance where a man was hit 4 times with 185 gr HPs, wasn't knocked down but did turn around and walk across the street where he did fall down. Still alive far as I know. Any one of the bullets thru the head would have been lethal.
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Old September 27, 2012, 09:34 AM   #47
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Well, seems like it's fairly close to a split decision when it comes to caliber vs. shot placement.

I've also considered a compact 9mm but I might consider branching out into other calibers. The .380 seems interesting and there are quite a few available at a reasonable price.
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:18 AM   #48
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My take on the 380 vs 9mm debate is that if you successfully used a 9mm to stop an attack that means you were on the money with shot placement. You would have been just as successful with a 380.

A 9 will not stop unless properly placed and a properly placed 380 will be just as effective. Choose the one you can shoot the most accurate and can reasonably conceal.

I can shoot my Taurus 380 far more accurately than my harder recoiling pf9 and lc9. It is also easier to conceal
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:39 AM   #49
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Quote:
My take on the 380 vs 9mm debate is that if you successfully used a 9mm to stop an attack that means you were on the money with shot placement. You would have been just as successful with a 380.
^^^ This is exactly my outlook on it as well.


When I first started shooting and getting into gun's I thought I needed the most powerful round I could fit into a small package. My first carry gun was a S&W model 60 in .357. As I continued to learn more about firearms I realized caliber isn't as important as people chalk it up to be. I worry more about getting some trigger time from week to week and practicing with my carry guns than I do about which round I carry. I no longer own the .357 and alternate between 9mm, .38 special, and .380. Don't listen to all the internet hype about which round is better than the other, .380 is plenty good as a SD round and those who say otherwise are ignorant to the damage any firearm can cause. Sure 9mm is better than .380, but so is .44 mag, and 10mm and etc... For as many advantages the internet has, it has just as many disadvantages, and armchair commandos talking down on the .380 because it isn't as powerful a round as their .45 is one of them.

Quote:
I thought Bond carried a Walther PPK in .32 ACP in most of his movies after being forced to surrender his Beretta .25.
Yup your right it was .32 not .380. I believe Q said something to the likes of getting shot with it was like a brick going through a pane glass window

Last edited by Dragline45; September 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM.
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Old September 27, 2012, 11:52 AM   #50
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Hi, Technosavant,

Nope, Prinzip and his three friends carried Model 1910s in 9mm Browning Short (.380 ACP). Prinzip's was serial number 19074.

I know of a shooting that involved one man with a .45 auto and another with a .44 Magnum. They each fired one shot at under 10 foot range. The man shot with the .45 died an hour later; the one shot with the .44 died the next day in the hospital. So neither of those "super" rounds killed instantly (I don't know where the hits were).

Jim
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