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Old December 31, 2011, 02:31 PM   #1
hooligan1
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Turkish Mauser Makeover?

I purchased an old Turkish Mauser, and with it I'd like to build a 6.5-06. I'm trying to get some figures and some info on what exactly needs to be done.
I know that I will have to send it off to be rebarreled and the bolt trued and some other cosmetic and accurizing steps.

I appreciate some of your ideas, and your input.
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Old December 31, 2011, 04:38 PM   #2
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Of course it's your's to do with as you see fit, but something to think about. You're gonna re-barrel it with the attendent fitting by a 'smith, drill and tap the receiver for scope mounts, alter the bolt handle to clear a scope, probably replace the trigger, blue the whole thing, then need mounts for the action, probably then want a proper stock to set the whole thing in. I came up when the process was cheap, often starting with a $25 rifle. I still have a couple of actions and will probably build a couple more for myself before I lock up the shop for the last time. You might consider a Savage in the chosen caliber, or if not available it's easy to change the barrel yourself with a couple of tools that are easy to buy. As I said, your choice, but you might want to think about it. Come to think about it, I presume your rifle is 8mm which tho not so popular nowadays ain't no slouch. Goatwhiskers
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Old December 31, 2011, 05:06 PM   #3
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Of course you can start your 6.5-06 project from a Mauser, but it's typically done with a Type 38 Arisaka as all you need to do is ream a new chamber.
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Old January 1, 2012, 10:42 AM   #4
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Goatwiskers, it already has a synthetic stock, and the stock barrel is pretty worn. It's a project that my son and I have elected to try, hopefully it'll provide us some "father-son" time, and no-doubt we'll use it as a learning process... We have been intrigued with the 6.5-06, and your probably right we could purchase an already-to-go rifle, but that isn't what we started out to do.
Some of the "metal-working", we'll undergo ourselves but alot of it will be done by the smith.
The handloading is what I'm excited about, not necessarily the work it will take to finish it.
Anyways, thanks for your comments and ideas, fellas!
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Old January 1, 2012, 12:46 PM   #5
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Many of the Turkish Mausers are not true m98 and aren't really suitable for conversion to a longer case.
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Old January 1, 2012, 03:06 PM   #6
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Mk441, explain your reply, please.
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Old January 1, 2012, 03:45 PM   #7
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As I understand it......

Hooligan-

The German Empire gave the Ottoman Empire many different rifles in the years leading up to WWI and WWII (including the Commission Rifle I now have) ..... the Turks cobbled them together so they'd have something to arm their soldiers with.... and the turks were not always terribly concerned with their conscripts well being...... how else do you explain rebarrelling a Commission Rifle for the new much higher pressure 8mm JS ammo?

The Turks' "cobbling" was so common it's an adjective now: "Turked" Mausers are parts guns of questionable safety ......
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Old January 1, 2012, 04:32 PM   #8
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Turkish Mauser can be a broad term. Yes , they did receive a lot of German made Mauser. They have used '95 , '96 (small ring) and '98 (large ring) models , and have chambered all for the 8x57. But the earlier models were not as strong as the '98. Plus they made their own at Ankara , and these were not a true '98 pattern. Dimensionally , they're all over the place. They also have a reputation for rather soft steel. I've read several books on Mausers , including Robert Ball's Military Mausers of the World. I wouldn't waste my time and money , and risk my pretty face making a Turk into anything but a lamp or wall hanger. There's plenty of better rifles and actions , true '98s , out there.

BTW , the Yugo 24/47 is an excellent quality rifle , but uses a somewhat shorter action than a 'German' 98 action. They cannot be used for conversion to an -06 length cartridge.

Last edited by mkk41; January 1, 2012 at 04:38 PM.
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Old January 3, 2012, 01:02 PM   #9
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The 1903 - 1905 built at Orberndorf Germany Turkish Mausers were made in 7.65x53mm, and converted to 8x57mm in ~1934 by cut and brazing the magazine box and putting a notch in large ring. The lug abutments have been undermined to shorten the feed ramp.
So they modified a gun built for a 2.992" cartridge to fit a 3.25" cartridge.

The K.Kale Turkish Masers were made ~ 1938 as 8x57mm to start.
These were built to fit a 3.25" cartridge.

A 6.5-06 is a 3.34" cartridge.
You may be able to stretch the K.Kale Turk to work, but the 1903 Turk has already been stretched.

In this pic there is a K.Kale Turk I have sporterized on top and a 1903 Turk I have sporterized on the bottom.
Can you see how the 1903 is shorter?
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File Type: jpg K.Kale top 1903 Turk bottom.jpg (165.1 KB, 72 views)
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Old January 4, 2012, 07:09 PM   #10
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http://www.turkmauser.com/serialNumbers.aspx

F. Guffey

Check all links for more information.
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Old January 4, 2012, 07:10 PM   #11
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http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx

Like this one.

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Old January 4, 2012, 10:25 PM   #12
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I have done some research and can't find that the Turks ever made a Mauser rifle action. Before and after WWI, they bought thousands of rifles, mostly from Germany, which had always had military influence in Turkey. What the Turks did, c. 1938, was to take the conglomeration of rifles they had on hand and rebarrel/restock/rework them to as close to a uniform appearance as they could get (basically the look of the German K.98k) and make them a uniform caliber, 8x57JS (German 7.9). The reworked rifles were all designated Model 1938, confusing gunsmiths and collectors ever since.

Those rifles were then re-marked to indicate the Turkish military arsenal at Ankara/Kirikkale where the work was done. Many were WWI Kar 98a carbines, which were 98 actions with a small receiver ring to reduce weight. The Turks had gotten hundreds of thousands of those, so many that the rifles became known as the "small ring Turkish", even though they were really German, made at Erfurt.

Most are good enough rifles, though many are in horrible shape. Because of the wide variety, age, and condition of the base rifles, generalization ("Turks are great" or "Turks are no good") is just not possible. Every "Turkish" Mauser should be evaluated on its own if one plans to sporterize or otherwise alter it for shooting.

Altering an 8mm Mauser action to accept a cartridge of .30-06 length involves some work on the magazine and often the feed rails, not just barrel work.

Jim
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Old January 4, 2012, 11:32 PM   #13
Jim Watson
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Quote:
I will have to send it off to be rebarreled and the bolt trued and some other cosmetic and accurizing steps.
All that will be expensive.
I doubt the added expense of a first class action would even be noticeable. Not even if you count the cost of the Turk as a total loss.
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Old January 5, 2012, 03:40 AM   #14
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I have a Turk 1954 ATF Mauser which is an Imperial GEW98 Mauser. It was re-worked by the Turks in 1954. It retains the origina Mauser two stage trigger and is a tack driver. I understand that the skeptics consider those to be slightly unsafe because when rebarrelling they removed some of the receiver threads, but there is no documentation of failures in them. You can find a quality German M98 action amongst the Turks, but there will be some of less quality out there also.

I was pretty sure Yugo 24/47 is a TRUE M98 action, the Yugo M48 is an intermediate between Small/large. I have a Yugo 24/47 in my safe and I am almost 100% certain it says Model 98 on the rec. I believe they were either G24's or VZ24's reworked by Yugoslavia in 1947. Honestly about the BEST M98 action you can find to build on is the VZ24.

I would assume th gunsmith will be able to say whether do-able or not before he starts.
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Old January 6, 2012, 04:24 PM   #15
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Turkish Mausers

Sirs;
It is one of the "better" msausers!
I've built 416 Taylors, 30-06, 280 Rem and 22-250 and many 9.3X62s and 9.3X64s on that reciever! I have recently hears that they were made in Oberndorf for the Turks!

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Old February 5, 2012, 02:02 PM   #16
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I removed the barrel today, and worked on some of the other cosmetic's. It was actually pretty easy compared to what other fellas have been through, I sprayed it down with Pen, a super penetrator, and tapped the barrell with a 3lb hammer, and stood it up in a corner overnight. An 18 inch Rigid pipe wrench on the barrel, and a huge Cresent in the action, a little heat and bingo.
I didn't have to apply very much heat, it seemed to pop right when I settled the torch on the reciever,( probably didn't even need it)it was cool to the touch as I screwed the barrel out. The Pen did its job.

Now I need to hook up with the smith, and get some direction for this new project.... any takers?...
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Old February 7, 2012, 10:48 AM   #17
Clark
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I have bought between 50 and 100 Turkish Mausers over the last 12 years.

Here is a pic of my brother with a 1903 Turkish Mauser converted to .223.

Here is a pic of some 1903 Turkish Mauser bolts I was polishing after TIG welding.

You have to want to do this stuff, because it is not cost effective.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Paul's223TurkDSCF0006.jpg (175.3 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg TurkBoltsDSCF0050.jpg (130.2 KB, 43 views)
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Old February 10, 2012, 05:50 PM   #18
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I have already allowed for the monetary part of it...... Where this rifle will pay off, is when my son tells his friends (long after I'm gone) that we built it together and handloaded a bunch of different accurate ammo for it.

Clark, I bet that .223 is real accurate, do you fellas by chance rebarrel mausers yourselves??
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Old February 10, 2012, 09:17 PM   #19
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Then to my way of thinking, it's worth every darn penny and minute you spend on it.
Being one without children and not likely to have any, I'm envious.
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Old February 13, 2012, 11:02 AM   #20
Clark
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Yes, that 1 in 16" twist Douglas barrel blank for rimfires, as a 223 can only shoot 50 gr or less bullets, but sub moa is more often than not.

I have rebarreled Mausers to .223, 7.62x25 [30 Mauser], 243, 257 Roberts Ackley Improved, 260Rem, 7x57mm [7mm Mauser], 308, 45acp, 7mmRemMag, 300 WinMag, and 25-35.

It is best to do the 0.473" Mauser case head cartridges, e.g. 22-250, 243, 6mm Rem, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 260 Rem, 6.5x55 [US made brass], 270, 7mm-08, 7x57mm, 280, 300Sav, 308, 7.62x51mm, 30-06, 8x57mm, 338F, 358, 35W and 45acp.

It is possible to do, but a lot more work in H&H belted magnum case head, e.g. 6.5mm RemMag, 7mm RemMag, 8mmRemMag, 264 WinMag, 300 H&H Mag, 300 WinMag, 338 WinMag, 350 RemMag, 375 H&H Mag, 458 WinMag.
The bolt face must be opened up. That is an interrupted cut on hardened steel, but you can do it.
The extractor must be opened up.
The feed lips must be opened up. [Do it per R.A. Walsh]

But avoid like the plague doing 222 case heads e.g. 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, 221 Rem Fireball, .222 Rem, .223 Rem, 5.56x45mm, .222 Rem mag, 6x45mm.
The extractor must be welded.
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Old November 1, 2012, 10:11 PM   #21
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Clark, could you please help me out?

Clark, I saw your 1903 sporter pics and it looks great...please tell me where to get scope bases for my 1903 Turkish Mauser project...

Thank you.
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Old November 4, 2012, 12:19 PM   #22
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Steve Wagner has lots of great info on re-working Turks...much of which can be DIY even without a lathe.
Short-chambered barrels are also available from Brownells and others that allow you to install the barrel as well.

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkmain.html
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Old November 4, 2012, 02:27 PM   #23
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+2 On steve's pages. The biggest problem I can see if you have a K Kale is getting someone to cut small ring threads on a 6.5 06. I've done a number of KKale actions to 270, 30 06, 308 and 6.5 x 55 they work just fine, HOWEVER a lot of the K Kale mags are a touch short for 06 length stuff.
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Old November 4, 2012, 06:33 PM   #24
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I contacted ITD custom Gunsmithing about the work to be done,,,
1. New Douglas barrel 24 inch 1 in 9 twist, 6.5-06, fluted with muzzle brake.
2. True the action and take off the ring.
3. Lap the lugs.
4. Reforge the bolt handle.
5. Drill and tap for one piece Redfield base.
6. Parkerize the barreled action.
I think that is about it,,, quote was less than $600.00.
It will be awhile before I can afford to send it off.
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Old November 5, 2012, 09:53 AM   #25
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hooligan1
I contacted ITD custom Gunsmithing about the work to be done,,,
1. New Douglas barrel 24 inch 1 in 9 twist, 6.5-06, fluted with muzzle brake.
2. True the action and take off the ring.
3. Lap the lugs.
4. Reforge the bolt handle.
5. Drill and tap for one piece Redfield base.
6. Parkerize the barreled action.
I think that is about it,,, quote was less than $600.00.
It will be awhile before I can afford to send it off.
1) a) Douglas barrels are not factory lapped and can Copper foul faster than factory lapped barrels. They ARE stress relieved. I have put a number of them on Turk actions and VZ24 actions.
b) I have put on a number of muzzle brakes 12 years ago and bought guns with muzzle brakes. I now take them off. They make too much noise and kick up too much dust from prone.
2) I have trued enough Mausers actions by making a mandrel and turning the receiver in the lathe and facing off the large rings. This has never increased accuracy for me and makes the distance from the barrel shoulder to breech to be odd ball.
3) I have made spring loaded Mauser lug lapping fixtures and lapped enough Mauser lugs. This makes the head space odd ball and has not increased accuracy.
4) I have forged over dozens of Mauser bolt handles. This alone makes for a very short bolt handle. The best is to forge it and then weld it longer, but most often now I just weld longer.
5) I buy a lot of guns. If they have Redfield mounts or lapped rings, I take that stuff off and throw it away. I have standardized on Weaver rings and Weaver or Picatinny rails. Sometimes I make my own Picatinny or Weaver rails and sometimes I buy them.
6) Parkerizing involves the use of Hazardous chemicals. I have not done it. I have done Brownells spray baking lacquer. I think that caused some brain damage. You may be better off with Alumnihide II and wearing a mask that filters organic compounds.
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