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Old September 24, 2012, 08:50 PM   #26
jimbob86
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You live in Alaska, where it's dark 18+ hours a day for 1/4 the year and you have no night-sights? Are you hoping the aurora borealis is going to illuminate your target?

Night sights, flashlight, a weapons familiarization class for the gf....

Quote:
Having the GF learn to recognize the roomie's voice might be a good idea.
Having come right close to putting several loads of shot through my front door when my own drunken brother showed up unannounced at 4 AM and started pounding and kicking said door ..... I was not in any shape or mood for voice recognition.... to go from deep sleep to "Fight or Flight" with no serious "Flight" option in the space of 15-30 seconds..... that's a recipe for unpleasantness.
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Old September 24, 2012, 10:05 PM   #27
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You live in Alaska, where it's dark 18+ hours a day for 1/4 the year and you have no night-sights? Are you hoping the aurora borealis is going to illuminate your target?
Night sights do not 'illuminate' anything of the target. That is what the flash light is for.

Night sights only help align the sights in darkness. But if that 'shadow' turns out to be your kids, well you will see why you need that light.

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Old September 24, 2012, 10:31 PM   #28
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and... if you have roommates, you need to understand that they may or may not share your love of guns. Roommates may get drunk and come home at 4am, that's one reason why I lock all my guns up. GF needs to needs to figure out the difference between a possible home invasion and roomie comming home drunk.
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Old September 25, 2012, 09:57 AM   #29
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GF needs to needs to figure out the difference between a possible home invasion and roomie comming home drunk.
Perhaps I am too far removed from the Animal House lifestyle, but I disagree with putting the onus on other people to determine if the threat with which they are presented is because of drunkenness. (Do you think anyone ever pretended to be drunk in order to get away with something?) If a person drinks to the point of not being in control of themselves, they need to understand that that degree of drunkenness is itself a choice which may have adverse consequences. A threat is still a threat whether it comes from a drunk or a sober person.
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Old September 25, 2012, 10:21 AM   #30
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This is yet another reason why I like dogs.

Once you know a particular dog, you get a pretty good idea of the differences in the sounds it will make, for instance, "Oh boy!!! Somebody is here!!!" vs, "Somebody is here whom I do not trust!!! Alert!!! Danger!!!"

My dogs will let me know if a friend shows up. They will also let me know if a stranger shows up. The sounds are not the same.

The added benefit is that medium large, snarling dogs often discourage people from trying to enter the wrong house.

On another note, having a safe place (concealment, cover) from which one can observe entry points can help afford enough time to identify friend from foe. The more secure the house, the more luxury of time afforded. But I would still call 911, until absolutely sure it is not foe.
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Old September 25, 2012, 12:00 PM   #31
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Deaf Smith
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Posts: 2,491 1. Teach your GF how to shoot (and get her a gun if you can.)

Yes the only problem with that is we could now be talking about a dead flat mate. And how to get his girl friend out of jail.
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Old September 25, 2012, 12:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Quote:
Teach your GF how to shoot (and get her a gun if you can.)
Yes the only problem with that is we could now be talking about a dead flat mate. And how to get his girl friend out of jail.


That's assuming a lot.
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Old September 25, 2012, 01:11 PM   #33
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Pooch Patrol

Quote:
This is yet another reason why I like dogs.

Once you know a particular dog, you get a pretty good idea of the differences in the sounds it will make, for instance, "Oh boy!!! Somebody is here!!!" vs, "Somebody is here whom I do not trust!!! Alert!!! Danger!!!"

My dogs will let me know if a friend shows up. They will also let me know if a stranger shows up. The sounds are not the same.

The added benefit is that medium large, snarling dogs often discourage people from trying to enter the wrong house.

On another note, having a safe place (concealment, cover) from which one can observe entry points can help afford enough time to identify friend from foe. The more secure the house, the more luxury of time afforded. But I would still call 911, until absolutely sure it is not foe.
My dog is excellent with this. she always alerts me someone or something is coming. There is a small list of people who tend to elicit a happy golden retriever response. The rest get a growl, woof, snarl, and finally hide behind Dad approach.

The very nice thing about this is that I get the happy golden response which lets Mrs. Vermonter know instantly that it is me coming home.

Regards, Vermonter
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Old September 25, 2012, 01:17 PM   #34
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Quote. Skadoosh. That's assuming a lot. Do you think so.

A woman shot and killed her husband in their home after mistaking him for an intruder, according to police.
The 53-year-old is believed to have shot her 57-year-old spouse shortly after 11am at their home in the Lower 9th Ward of New Orleans.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A retired New York police captain mistook his 37-year-old son for an intruder, shooting and killing him with his service weapon as he tried to enter a motel room in the Adirondacks in the early morning.
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Old September 25, 2012, 02:17 PM   #35
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Quote.TailGator. but I disagree with putting the onus on other people to determine if the threat with which they are presented is because of drunkenness.

I think you will find. Hopefully not the hard way that the onus is on you to determine if someone is just drunk or a threat.

Last edited by manta49; September 25, 2012 at 03:16 PM.
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Old September 25, 2012, 02:30 PM   #36
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Again, although the girlfriend should get training on how to defend herself in case of a home invasion by a real perp, in this scenario, IMO, the guilty party (for lack of better words) is the room mate.

For starters, maybe some(or better) "living arrangement" ground rules need to be established in order to prevent this scenario from happening in the future.
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Old September 25, 2012, 02:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGator
...I disagree with putting the onus on other people to determine if the threat with which they are presented is because of drunkenness...
Quote:
Originally Posted by manta49
...Hopefully not the hard way that the onus is on you to determine if someone is just drunk or a threat...
In any case, understand that if you intentionally deploy lethal force against another human, the onus will be on you to show that a reasonable and prudent person in like circumstances would have concluded that extreme violence against that person was necessary to stop an otherwise unavoidable serious and immediate threat. And others will be deciding, after the fact, at their leisure and in safety, whether or not you have successfully done so.
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Old September 25, 2012, 02:56 PM   #38
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Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, Fido makes a mighty fine sensor package.
Bastion airbase could have used a few four footed friends on perimeter detail.
They sure helped out in RVN.
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Old September 25, 2012, 04:19 PM   #39
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In any case, understand that if you intentionally deploy lethal force against another human, the onus will be on you to show that a reasonable and prudent person in like circumstances would have concluded that extreme violence against that person was necessary to stop an otherwise unavoidable serious and immediate threat.
I agree with you entirely, Frank. I responded to another person saying something to the effect that it is up to the GF, when someone is beating her door down, to determine if the person is drunk. In my locale, there was a case a few months ago in which a drunk was beating on someone's door in the wee hours of the morning, and the homeowner opened the door to him with a pistol in his hand. When the drunk lunged at him, he shot the drunk dead, and was not charged. We can certainly debate, with valid points, the wisdom of opening the door in that situation, but the drunken state of the bad actor was not an excuse for what he did in the eyes of the local LEO/prosecutors/courts.

Certainly you need to be able to elucidate the threat that you felt, and it needs to be found to be a reasonable threat. Suspecting or even knowing that someone is drunk does not rule them out as a threat - that is all I am saying.

Quote:
I think you will find . . . that the onus is on you to determine if someone is just drunk or a threat.
I pray every day that I don't have to defend myself with lethal force, but I don't think that "drunk" and "threat" are mutually exclusive, and legal authorities in my locale seem to agree. You definitely should know the laws in your location, and consider them in your defensive decisions, but I would also advise you not to assume that someone who appears drunk really is, or that he or she poses no threat to you because of their drunkenness.
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Old September 25, 2012, 06:00 PM   #40
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In this situation, calling the police may have been a good idea. However, in some situations it's not always the best idea. In fact, it can be a terrible idea. Be aware of unintended consequences of getting the police involved.

For just one example, consider the case of a domestic dispute between you and your spouse or ex. Perhaps your ex shows up and demands something from you, and refuses to leave. Calling the police can certainly get one of you arrested. In many cases, the person making the call will be the one arrested! In many police departments, the police will have to file a report explaining exactly WHY they did not make an arrest. Often they feel they HAVE to arrest someone. It may even be a rule, written or not.

Get a domestic violence conviction and kiss your guns goodbye.

If you doubt this, do a little research, or talk to some cops. Here are two links:
http://ancpr.com/2007/08/11/mandator...says-so-81007/
http://www.policefoundation.org/docs...cresponse.html

Last edited by 45YearsShooting; September 25, 2012 at 06:12 PM.
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Old September 25, 2012, 06:19 PM   #41
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That's an interesting link, however it doesn't really support the argument that they arrest someone just to arrest someone and it also says nothing about convictions just arrests. It's also a tiny study that's 30 years old and may have no bearing on current police procedure, particularly at a nationwide level, it might still be relevant in Minneapolis where the study took place.

Quote:
Officers used a lottery method to determine which of the three responses they would use on each offender. Interviewers then recontacted victims over a six-month period to measure whether the offenders continued to commit domestic assaults, how often they did so, and how serious the assaults were. Official records were also reviewed.
Indicates that there was actual evidence of domestic violence, not just people being arrested to be arrested.

Quote:
As a result of the experiment, the Minneapolis Police Department changed its policy on domestic assaults. Officers are now required to file written reports explaining why they failed to make arrests when it was legally possible to do so. The new policy’s initial impact was to double the number of domestic assault arrests.
Just because the police are called does not mean there is a legal reason to make an arrest. Also it only speaks to the initial impact of a policy 30 years ago.

Quote:
It may be premature to conclude definitely that arrest is always the best police response to domestic violence, or that all suspects should be arrested.
Seems like the interpretation of the results also goes against just arresting someone to arrest someone.

So yes, I doubt the premise you have put forth.

Edit: to address the second link added

The second link does not indicate they're just arrest someone to arrest someone. Just that if there is evidence of DV that they have to make an arrest.

Either link applied to the OP, what evidence of DV would there be? None. Two parties on opposite sides of a locked door and no sign violence.

Last edited by sigcurious; September 25, 2012 at 06:34 PM.
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Old September 25, 2012, 07:18 PM   #42
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I had a client who had this happen to him. The police said they HAVE to arrest someone. He was the one who called the police on his ex-wife to get her out of his house. He was the one who was arrested. Point is; always think about consequences of calling the police. I think this is good advice, and something that people don't always think about.

When someone dies of old age, calling the police is not the best option either. They show up looking for foul play. Better to call the hospice.

Anyway, getting a bit off-topic here.
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Old September 25, 2012, 08:18 PM   #43
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I think an instance such as this warrants police immediately. You don't know whats out there, but it likely won't be pretty.

Drunks can be the most dangerous of all. After all, they are drunk.
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Old September 25, 2012, 08:58 PM   #44
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Since everyone else espoused their theory , I'll throw mine in the mix. Who leaves their girlfriend at their house and she apparently is unaware that someone else lives there ? Did I miss something. In my most humble opinion , Occupant plus gun plus fear added to ignorance = "Bang , You are Dead. Oh Crap! I didn't realize who you were." Not good at all ! On a lighter note , I love this thread . We got roommates , we got girlfriends. We have the Aurora Borealis and we have people who prefer Dogs.(I personally have been trying to work the Aurora Borealis into one of my posts for months.). This thread truly has it all. We have not had activity like this since that baseless attack on the 327 magnum.
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Old September 25, 2012, 10:24 PM   #45
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Sorry guys, but I disagree with calling 911 first.

First course of action should be to grab the gun (assuming that one knows how to use it), barricade/secure yourself, then call the cops.

The logic is that if one tries to call the cops while someone is attempting to break in, one may not have time to grab the gun or secure themselves in a locked room when the BG breaks in. Locking oneself in a room w/o a gun and calling 911 does no good if the BG is armed and breaks in while one is on the phone with 911.

First rule, grab a loaded gun when someone is trying to break in. Heck, better yet - carry on your person.
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Old September 25, 2012, 10:26 PM   #46
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45YearsShooting
<SNIP>When someone dies of old age, calling the police is not the best option either. They show up looking for foul play. Better to call the hospice.

<SNIP>
Heh, yuppppppp....... totally agree... there's a story here...
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Old September 25, 2012, 10:27 PM   #47
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Slight thread drift, but,...

Quote:
....I usually put my house/car keys in my checked baggage, because I have a pocketknife on that ring. Occasionally, I do find myself in town with no luggage and therefore no keys. So I've been there and done that. He might have been in a similar situation.

Uh, wouldnt it be simpler to take the knife off the keyring and not take the chance of not having your keys?

I dont think I'd care to be without keys, depending on the airlines to get the baggage there on time and the right place.
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Old September 26, 2012, 05:25 PM   #48
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Company policy is I get a weekend at home every three weeks. That's the only time I use my keys, so most of the time I just leave them in my suitcase anyway. I don't even think of taking them out until I have to unlock something. If I do get locked out, there are 5 other people who live in my house.

Of course, people in m house don't freak out, grab a shotgun, and barricade the door when I knock, either.
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Old September 26, 2012, 10:01 PM   #49
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Makes sense in that light.
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Old September 27, 2012, 12:33 PM   #50
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Call The Police

Quote:
always think about consequences of calling the police
While we digest that little morsel do me a favor and think about the consequences of not calling them please!

I don't see how the OP's situation relates to domestic violence. I see girl alone at home no working knowledge of weapons. Call the cops period end of story. Anything to the contrary is a foolish assertion.

Someone made the argument of secure yourself first and then call the police. I can agree with that given that the person involved has firearms training. If not then 911 while moving to a secure location should be priority #1. The line may be cut by the BG so if you can dial do it now. Cordless phone or cell phone is also handy. ALWAYS HAVE A CORDED PHONE IN YOUR SAFEST ROOM THAT DOES NOT RELY ON ELECTRICITY!!!!

The DV stuff doesn't really seem realevant here.

Regards, Vermonter
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