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Old September 25, 2012, 01:05 PM   #76
RickB
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Quote:
Falcon642 posted
with no gas losses around the cylinder and through the cylinder gap, you can easily add another 150 fps to every .357 load.

From all the data I've read about velocity loses due to the cylinder/barrel gap, 150 FPS lost is at the extreme high end.
I've chrono'd rounds out of a 2.5" .45 ACP revo that went faster than those same rounds did out of a 4.25" Commander. The effective barrel length of a revolver is longer than an auto pistol with a barrel of the same nominal length, so the flash gap is balanced by the extra tube length; a 4" revo will have higher velocity than a 4" auto, as the effective barrel length of the latter is only about 3".
Col. Cooper's intent for the 10mm round was a 200gr bullet with an impact velocity of 1000fps. At normal pistol ranges, that would be a muzzle velocity of about 1050-1075. What we got is something else altogether, and that something else is of limited appeal to most people.
I've owned a Delta Elite for over ten years, and have literally never fired a round of factory ammo through it. Expensive factory ammo just doesn't concern me. I love the versatility of a gun that can be loaded down for 9mm-levels of plinking, and .357 Mag. levels of power; what's not to like?
It I could keep only one of my handguns, it might be the Delta, as it does everything my eight other 1911 can do, in one package.
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Old September 25, 2012, 05:58 PM   #77
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I would have a 10mm in something, but the Coonan jumped up at the LGS.
Really like .357 in a 1911. I haven't tried anything but full house 158gr softpoints. Someone suggested I load down to 38special levels. Hell no!
It's too much fun. Much less blast without a breech gap, too.
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Old September 25, 2012, 08:07 PM   #78
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I may just have to pick up a 10mm barrel for my G21... thanks for the inspiration to find another way to spend money Plouffe.
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Old September 25, 2012, 08:11 PM   #79
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I don't know where the claim that 10mm is close to .41Mag comes from ... they are nowhere near close in power.
I was talking about middle of the road .41 factory loads, maybe a 210 gr. bullet at 1300 fps. I realize you can buy or load more powerful loads and I never said a 10mm equaled a .41 Mag. Simply stated, for many years, the 10mm was and is the closest mainstream semi-auto cartridge to the .357 and .41 mag if you want to shoot a semi-auto magnum and not get into true boutique rounds, 10mm is about it.
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Old September 25, 2012, 08:15 PM   #80
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I may just have to pick up a 10mm barrel for my G21... thanks for the inspiration to find another way to spend money Plouffe.
I get that a lot
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Old September 25, 2012, 08:51 PM   #81
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Why is 10mm not popular? Because most people run with the pack.

I own revolvers in .357 Mag. and .41 Mag, and a 1911 in 10mm. I enjoy each, and respect each for its abilities.

I try not to crap on other peoples' choices, or to get ridiculous in defending my own....but some of the posts in this thread strike me as immature willy-wagging.

IMHO, if you prefer a semi-auto pistol, and want something with Magnum power (give or take) the 10mm is the only game in town. I guess the Coonan is the lone exception to that, and one day I hope to own one. In the mean time...

The .460 Rowland and .45 Super exist, but I am not aware of any factory guns chambered in either (I think that Springfield once-upon-a-time had a .45 Super 1911) but no more. The .460 Rowland (all the ones I've seen) have ungainly long barrels.

Each of these in an order of magnitude less main-stream than the 10mm and .41 Mag. FWIW, I do own a .45 Super as well.
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Old September 25, 2012, 09:28 PM   #82
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Wilson Combat is making guns in .460 Rowland, though for the price you could have a 10mm, and a .357, with plenty of money left over for ammo.
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Old September 25, 2012, 09:33 PM   #83
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Anything from Wilson Combat will set you back the equivalent of a couple nice guns and then some. I think the XD 460 Rowland conversion makes sense if you want some serious power for a decent price.
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Old September 25, 2012, 11:35 PM   #84
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new to 1911 and 10mm

I've had glock 23s (40SW), snub nose .357, 44 mag wheel guns, 454 Casull and smaller handguns, but the Colt Govt model 1911 Delta Elite that I bought has become my carry gun and replaced both the Glock and the .357. I don't think it kicks too much even with Double tap 180s that I chronographed too close to 1500 to bother with. With the Don Hume inside and 5 O'clock carry it's comfortable and comforting.

I wanted one for years and I'll reload after I've got a few hundred pieces of brass. I love the 10mm but I'm a ten nubie.
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Old September 26, 2012, 02:33 AM   #85
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Most of the detractors seem decidedly misinformed or willfully ignorant which is a common condition on internet forums.

It's a big step up from 9mm/40/45. All you need to do is look at the energy levels in hot loads of the respective calibers. Energy increase on the order of 300+ ft lbs. It has more energy at 100 yards than .45 does at the muzzle.

Pressure is right with or below normal pressure, +P and +P+ of other calibers (except .45, which operates at a very low pressure in normal loadings, not sure about +P+ pressures). For example, the pressure of 9mm and 10mm are close to identical. Normal pressures of .40 and .357 Sig are both higher. 9mm +p+ higher. In other words, a high pressure gun destroying beast.

As far as recoil, it is best in a Glock 20 which is a very, very soft shooting weapon and certainly less snappy than the common Glock 22. It is much less snappy than a 9mm +P+, .45 +P+ or vanilla .40. If you can't shoot a Glock 20 without excessive muzzle flip, your technique needs work or you're too small for the gun.

As for being close to .41 magnum, obviously not. .41 Magnum outclasses 10mm. 10mm however is an automatic round. If the situation you needed your weapon for favored an automatic like woods defense or general carry, obviously the .41 magnum being more powerful is irrelevant. If you just want one well placed shot for handgun hunting, then obviously a .41 magnum would be a better choice. Stupid comparison on the pro 10mm side and stupid argument on the con side, too.
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:04 AM   #86
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I have the bigass Glock 20, chambered in 10mm.

What I like:
-10mm
-reliable
-accurate
-handles the "hotter" 10mm rounds

Don't:
-10mm is hard to find, harder than 357 SIG
-big recoil and fatigue I'm done after 25-30 rounds. I also can't shoot accurate AND fast, which is something I can do with regular 9mm and 45.
-Glock trigger
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Old September 26, 2012, 08:57 AM   #87
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I have a Fusion longslide Classic Hunter. It is a 1911 with 6" barrel. Only holds 8+1, so it yields capacity to the Glock, but it has 1911 ergos and trigger, and the 6" barrel.

DW used to make the PointMan and CBOB in 10mm, too.

The Delta is not the only 10mm 1911.
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Old September 26, 2012, 09:50 AM   #88
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You've got 4 pages of posts about 10mm and counting - I wouldn't say that 10mm is all that unpopular.
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Old September 26, 2012, 09:55 AM   #89
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The 10mm does have a following...

Learn more about those who like and shoot 10mm...
http://10mm-firearms.com/index.php
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Old September 26, 2012, 10:00 AM   #90
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Quote:
You've got 4 pages of posts about 10mm and counting
Well, its interesting for sure. I think many of us would like to have one, but our money goes much further with other options.

I dont think any one single thing makes it unpopular, its several smaller issues, but in the end it just not terribly practical; the recoil bothers many, limited pistol selection, concerns of over-penetration, cost, availability and so on...

Despite all that, I cant really think of a better all around woods gun than a Glock 29 for areas with mildly dangerous furry critters, excluding bears.
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Old September 26, 2012, 04:01 PM   #91
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The G29 is a great gun. I should have never sold mine but I am married, and had duplicates of the 10mm and its velocity with the shorter barrel went down more that I thought it would. Funny thing is I never see the G29 in any of my local stores anymore but I do see the G20 now and then.
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:47 PM   #92
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Check out the penetration on this .10mm!
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1348796831.645614.jpg
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Old September 27, 2012, 09:01 PM   #93
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I think the reason it is not as popular is this; Those who use it, LOOOOOVE it, and understandably, but those of us who think it is (overkill/unasked answer/too niche/insert other reason) are a majority.

The fact is, people are herd animals, which is why there are some super popular cartridges, and people are creative, which is why there are so many "other" cartridges. Popular ones fill many needs pretty well, and "others" fill specific needs spectacularly, or do most everything ok but focus on this or that, or just plain suck, but are interesting...
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Old September 27, 2012, 09:37 PM   #94
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I guess I didn't get the memo that it wasn't popular.
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Old September 27, 2012, 09:39 PM   #95
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When the 10 was made it was a hot cartridge. It was like having a 357 magnum that held in my case 16 rounds. People couldn't handle the recoil so they downloaded them. Then the Fbi wanted them and the female agents and people with small hands had trouble handling it. So they came up with the 40 s&w. Take a look at the specs for they original Been 10. They were powerful guns.
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:27 PM   #96
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I was just out with my 10 mm tonight. I own a SW 1086 and 1076 and a Colt delta Elite. It's an awesome round...just look at the ballistics charts. MY goal is to own all of the SW3rd gen 10 mm. a Bren 10 and a Colt Delta Elite. I am working to a 5 year plan. And... whoever said it was almost as powerful as a 357? Are you kidding me? Check your facts..
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:44 PM   #97
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Again with the myth of the 10mm as being more powerful than a .357?
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:55 PM   #98
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It can be up there with the best .357 loads, and is better than many with regard to energy and momentum.

The .357 will almost always enjoy the advantage in sectional density, and get the benefits of trajectory and penetration that result from that.

So I wouldn't call it a myth, as it can have some truth to it.
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:58 PM   #99
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Ok where that ballistics chart does a 357 magnum have more velocity and force than a 10mm...?
Please tell me where you see that ??
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Old September 27, 2012, 11:00 PM   #100
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There was a post on this forum some where of a guy using buffalo bore in a Coonan and getting 900 foot pounds. I am getting close to that with my 357 magnum Desert Eagle (same 6 inch barrel but its gas operated)

Found the link http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ghlight=coonan

That is with a light bullet but that is a lot of energy (for a nonhunting handgun)

I bet the 10mm could do the same thing if you put a 125 grain bullet in it but I doubt it would work well with a bullet that light.



as to why the 10mm is not popular... its "too big" for people and a marginal for bear. That seems to be what most people these days care about.
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