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Old September 5, 2012, 03:43 PM   #1
ronz
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Did I order the right stuff?

Brand spanking new to casting and I just put in my order still have to mail them the check so by the time they get it and get the stuff ready to ship have a little time to change things but think I got it right
I’m starting with the rounds I shoot the most of so went with the 6 cavity moulds
Lead is 95/2.5/2.5 and plan on water dropping
First one I want to cast for is 7.62x25 at approx. 1400fps
Barrels slugged at .301/.311 .302/.313 .301/.313 and .300/.312
LEE MOULD 311-93-1R SIX CAVITY (LEE90308) &
LEE LUBE & SIZE KIT .309 DIAMETER (LEE90038)
from what I read they have chambering problems above .309
also getting a mould for 9mm & 38 super should be under 1000 fps
barrels slugged at .348/.357(super) .349/.356 .348/.356 .349/.358 (old p-1)
LEE MOULD 356-120-TC SIX CAVITY (LEE90387)
LEE LUBE & SIZE KIT .357 DIAMETER (LEE90047)
I called lee there specks are from size to .003 over the other option would be to use 38 special bulletts
Going with the lee 4-20 bottom pour pot also remembered to get handles for the moulds
Thanks for all the help in my other thread about getting lead
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Old September 5, 2012, 03:46 PM   #2
jmortimer
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The 4-20 is the one to get. I would spend some time at Cast Boolits if you have not been there yet. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
There is a lot of info on how to keep your 4-20 going along with everything else.
Check out the recent thread on Alox lubing or the "Sticky" on Cast Boolits.
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Old September 5, 2012, 07:16 PM   #3
GP100man
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Save ya self some trouble & get a hot plate to preheat the 6 banger & when ya start just fill the 2 at the sprue hinge & as it comes up in temp go to the next 2 & finally all 6.

Your alloy should work as is, air cooled.

Also when ya go over to CastBoolits,com look under the vendor section & visit with NOE they have some KOOL tools for casters mainly a source for a good casting thermometer,which I highly recomend some type of so you`ll know exactly how hot ya melt is .

Pick up a long handled spoon & 1# of parrafin to flux with , a small pair of visegrips to add weight to the handles as when the pot is full it tries to float the valve & drips,plus the extra weight helps with drips all the time !!!

Oh yeah a sheet pan to place under the spout to catch over run or drips , it`ll save burn spots on ya table top.

PS . the parrafin will melt qwikly /smoke then flash burn so don`t let it scare ya & I let the dross sit on top as a berrier to air , get a bunch of sprues first then add to the pot while ya take a break, refill/reflux & do it all over again !!!

Remember SAFETY gear PLEASE !!

Enuff for now .

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Old September 7, 2012, 02:54 AM   #4
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Been lurking around cast boolits for a while found it a while back when I tried to find out what a boolit was lol and bookmarked it
Saw 2 different ways for lubing on there that I liked one is the 45/45/10 other is heating the lla + ms and dipping the bullets have to try them both to see which one I prefer and ordered some tac#1 today that I have to try but might even try combining the two and dip the bullets in 45/45/10 if it will even work that way but need to make some bullets to lube first before even thinking about experimenting
I still have one of the heating elements from a pizza pazas can use that to make a mould warmer
Had an idea for a thermometer just stick a magnetic chimney thermometer on a piece of steel and put it in the pot that don’t work going to have to get the one from noe
Good tip for adding weight with the vice grips
Going to use my welding gloves may have to go to harbor freight and pick up a face shield though
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Old September 7, 2012, 10:18 PM   #5
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ronz

Try the LLA as is before you go trying to improve on it. I thank the day I went from the Size/Lube process to Tumble Lubing. Did 100 .357s last night in minutes. Granted it is a bit thick as is. I drip it into the bowl first and roll the bowl to coat, then add bullets. That way a couple bullets don't get a "heavy dose". I err on the VERY light side and have ZERO problems with leading or anything else. If you feel you must thin the stuff, just pour a small amount into another similar container, (I've used empty nasal spray containers) and add some mineral spirits. I've used 70/30 with good results (as far as making the application easier). Don't get nuts about having to stand all your bullets on end. I just spread them on some wax paper and let them "dry" for a day or two. While they do remain a bit "tacky", it does not affect my loading in the least.

Good luck with your casting. Nothing like doing some awesome groups with your own bullets. You're going to enjoy it!
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Old September 11, 2012, 05:08 PM   #6
ronz
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Thanks mudlark
Was going to try it straight first for some reason I’m drawn to the lube threads just find them very interesting even though the other ways I was thinking about are not very radical
Best to get everything perfected using the standard method first
trying to do a load workup using a few different types of lubed bullets on top of the different powders and charges would really complicate things and if I have to do any trouble shooting with that many variables
The lead and mould lube has arrived just need to stop reading and getting too many ideas until the equipment gets here
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Old September 12, 2012, 03:14 PM   #7
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Just a hint; try alox plain first. Careful, as 90% of new users use too much. Depending on how thick it comes out of the bottle you have two options; heat it and/or thin with mineral spirits. I do both. When I dip lube, ala Ranch Dog http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Tips/Alox/ I just warm the alox and bullets. I often thin the alox to about the same consistancy as 5-20 motor oil when I just want to tumble. 45-45-10 is an excellent lube too, and it has worked for me on everything up to .44 magnum loads (mebbe 1300 fps).

I enjoy mixing stuff to make a bullet lube and sometimes it just don't work, but I can determine whether a problem is caused by alloy, bullet size, or lube. So I'd say until you get your casting down pat, purchasing lube could prolly be best. I can buy lube from these folks for less than I can make my own, and it's usually better too http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html
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Old September 13, 2012, 01:28 AM   #8
ronz
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Read a lot of good stuff about white label lube probably will need to get some stuff from there
once I use up what comes with the sizers
Haven’t read a lube thread in a couple of days now so I’m doing good
Wish grafs sent a tracking # so I had an idea when the rest of the stuff was going to get here
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Old September 13, 2012, 07:47 PM   #9
Gerry
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I went from pan lubing, to Lee's LLA method, to using a Lyman 4500, and now back to pan lubing. And this is for high volume 9mm IPSC Production needs.
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Old September 14, 2012, 09:34 PM   #10
ronz
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Received the equipment yesterday
Of course rained most of the day but that was probably good took apart the valve to lap it and it definitely needed it doesn’t leak at all
Made a few earlier and it worked really good almost all had good fill out not a lot of rejects most were for the line where the molds line up I was being pretty picky just have to melt them and can have perfect ones I air cooled them really want to get to the range this weekend to test them out so tried to do what I knew I shouldn’t and tried to pan lube some with some stick lube didn’t work too good so there going back into the pot have the rest of the first batch lubed with lla drying on wax paper
They should continue to harden for about the next 2 weeks?
Going to make a batch of water dropped tonight
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Old September 15, 2012, 05:20 AM   #11
Mike / Tx
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Sounds like your off to a decent start.

One thing to watch with those long 6 cavity molds is picking up a drop of lead somewhere along the inside of the blocks but outside the cavities. This will give you some finning for sure. Another cause, until you get good and acquainted with using them, is simply not holding the grips together tight enough. It also helps if when your closing the molds to set them on a flat surface so they align better. Just helps to keep the wear and tear on the alignment pins to a minimum. I have found that mine cast the best, when using WW alloy, if I keep the pot temp in the 675-700 range. I use one of the clip on thermometers that Swede Nelson sells. Just remember as you pot level drops your alloy temp will creep up pretty quick on you, and the level will drop pretty quick once you get into a good rhythm with a 6 banger.

I usually give my bullets a minimum two week cure, and have found that even this is sometimes a bit short depending on what the caliber is. The larger bullets seem to grow a bit more than the smaller ones which might be expected due to being more there to stabilize. I usually pour up a couple hundred of the ones I shot the most, and box them up for when they are needed. When I get down to around a hundred or so I will pour up another box full.

The ones I have a hard time with are when I pick up a new mold and am itching to try it out. Sometimes that two week wait is a bit much, and I might slip after a week and try a few out. It doesn't hurt much to do so or even cast, load, and shoot the same weekend, as long as your not working with top end loads that might not all get shot up. The extra growth can give you a bit of raised pressure.

One thing I can recommend doing which has helped me a LOT, when you make up your batch of alloy, pour a half dozen or so bullets right then and there while your making ingots. Stick them in a baggie with the alloy, date poured, and such, noted on the side. Then you can randomly test an actual bullet at later dates to see how the hardness might be on your bullets. This is also helpful when you pour up a batch, simply keep a few of the culls set aside and labeled with pour temp, and alloy type so you can use them instead of one of your good bullets.

If your only using straight wheel weights the extra bullets might not be really worth it after you figure out the cure times, but once you start to blend in some other metal with it, or are blending new alloys it really does help IMO.
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Old September 16, 2012, 03:23 PM   #12
ronz
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I have lubed bullets everywhere even a few hundred on the dining room table
Few more questions though
Should I wait two weeks to size them and does it matter if there air dropped or water dropped?
Also when I look at the amount of lube that’s supposed to be put on just don’t look like it is enough
So they really only need a verry light coat before and after sizing just barely enough to tint them
with no real buildup in the lube groves?
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Old September 17, 2012, 12:29 PM   #13
Mike / Tx
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Quote:
I have lubed bullets everywhere even a few hundred on the dining room table
Few more questions though
Should I wait two weeks to size them and does it matter if there air dropped or water dropped? I would give them at least a week if air cooled. Water quenched, they say, should be sized right away to reduce the amount of hardening removed from the exterior. I can say this, if you wait, they are a bit tougher to size, but I haven't noticed it making an overly large difference.
Also when I look at the amount of lube that’s supposed to be put on just don’t look like it is enough
So they really only need a verry light coat before and after sizing just barely enough to tint them
with no real buildup in the lube groves? Yepper's, that's about the extent of it. I have to admit that on my 300's destined for the 454, I don't sweat the added color, and some of them are VERY WELL lubed. As for the lesser pressured and velocity loads for everything else, then yes it only takes a VERY light coating. My thoughts are, I am not putting them in a beauty contest, and I keep them in a sealed box until ready to shoot unless hunting with them. If using them for the latter, it is pretty easy to simply wipe the excess off the noses in order to keep them from picking up any grit or grime. Other than that they all get a pretty good double dosing, once for sizing, and once again afterwards. About the only thing you will find with a bit of excess is a bit more smoke when you pull the trigger, or possibly a buildup in your seating stem.
Hope this helps
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Old September 17, 2012, 01:47 PM   #14
ronz
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That helped a lot
Didn’t see anything about when to size I thought you just did it the day after casting and first lube
But after I read what you said about them expanding as they aged it didn’t make much sense to me to size something that was going to get bigger
I already sized all the water dropped before I read about them expanding
Think I will be water dropping for the tokarevs but made some ad to test for leading
Think ad should work for all the 9mm
I know that’s it’s enough lube but just don’t look like enough to me being a noob next mold think I’m going to look for a tumble lube one
thanks
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Old September 17, 2012, 06:56 PM   #15
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Here is a tip for not using too much LLA. I put the bottle in a cup of hot water. About the same temp as a cup of coffee. Put it in for about 3 minutes it will be thinned out greatly. As has been said before, a little dab will do ya.
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Old September 21, 2012, 09:54 PM   #16
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cheap vise grips

Quote:
Pick up a long handled spoon & 1# of parrafin to flux with , a small pair of visegrips to add weight to the handles as when the pot is full it tries to float the valve & drips,plus the extra weight helps with drips all the time !!!
I was just thinking of this today while I was out and about.... but HomeDepot here has a nice little set of ViseGrips for only $2.00! I got a set for use as a replacement handle on my seat adjuster in my truck, and another just to leave hanging on the lead pot!

(really handy info if you have a HD in your area)
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Old September 23, 2012, 04:37 AM   #17
ronz
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Was able to test out a few bullets some leading but not too bad from the wd sized to 309 lubed with 45-45-10 just need to find the right combination
Tried some not sized ad (.311) lubed with lla they chambered fine but had more leading the leading was about ¾ down the barrel I didn’t let them age enough only about 6 days going to try them again in a week once they hit 2 weeks old
I cast some more wd & didn’t size them lubed twice with lla going to try them tomorrow
The small 93g cast better hotter I tried them at a lower temp and had a lot more rejects than the first time I cast them one problem I am having with them is a little ridge on the bottom of the bullet the mold it runs around the entire bullet pretty sure it’s not galling never had any lead on the spew plate or top of mold the mold walls run straight up to where the spew plate is I don’t get this with the .355 mold and on that mold the walls come in at the top producing a small taper at the bottom of the bullet
The ridge comes right off when sizing I can remove it easily with a finger nail
Would this be something to be concerned with if I don’t size them? I think it will either be cut off or just formed into the bullet with seating
Think everything is going really good so far can’t thank everyone enough for all the help and tips
Like the recommendation to lap the valve I have hardly any leaking
I also started collecting some scrap lead it might be fairly cheap to buy but learning that scrounging up the lead is part of what makes casting so enjoyable
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Old September 23, 2012, 08:41 AM   #18
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ronz

As this ridge starts showing up slow down casting or turn the heat down , also check to see if the sprue plate is flush/flat on the surface .

When thangs get good & hot lead will go to even the smallest cracks !

On the 6 bangers as they heat up it`ll take longer on the sprue to flash over , should`nt take more than 2.5-3 seconds ,any longer your mold is too hot !!

I take from the posts your loading rifle first ???

LLA has failed me when I turn up the pressure , more pressure more leading .
Also it`ll burn up on the tiniest amount of gas cutting of the bullet .
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Old September 23, 2012, 09:10 AM   #19
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Leading toward the muzzle is usually lube related,or running out of lube. Also running them to fast for the hardness can do it some. I had some leading when I first started and between making sure my bullets were big enough for my barrels , which involved getting .38 molds for a couple 9mm and ordering custum molds that are made to drop bullet bigger than any off the shelf mold will. I don't recall is you said what your barrels slugged at and what your sizing to or what the molds are actually dropping at. Lee's are known to have some variances in sizes. The 6 bangers are some of the better ones though. Measure bullets from each cavity and see what they run.
I also went with a lubrisizer and carnuba red/moly/homemade(parafin,red grease,olive oil,trans fluid,Johnsons paste wax).It made a soft lube that isn't sticky or hard. So far this has gotten rid of all my leading.
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Old September 24, 2012, 12:36 AM   #20
ronz
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Gp100 that was it! I checked over the second batch that I cast at a lower temp hardly any had the ridge
I’m loading for a tokerav pistol bottle necked 7.62x25 want to keep the velocity near factory (1600 fps) don’t have a chrono but with 5.4 gr of unique its nowhere even close to factory levels
I pulled the bullet off a surplus round and used the powder in one of my test loads was at least double the power of what I loaded there isn’t a lot of published data for the tokarev so of course that’s the only round I want to load on the hot side
Still got some leading at the end of the barrel today going to try the wd unsized .311 with 45-45-10 next
I lubed everything twice with lla so was just going to coat them again with the 45-45-10 let me know if that isn’t a good idea and ill cast some new ones
Checked the bullets I left in the mould to cool they were .310 except #4 witch was .309 also checked the ones I lubed most were .311 with a couple of .310’s
I’m using an m-57 to test with slugged at .313/.301 same as my ttc the smallest was a cz52 at .311
I read all the threads I could find about casting for the tokeraves and most reported that the largest they could go was .309 before they had chambering issues so I ordered the .309 sizer but I haven’t had any problems using them unsized but only tried them in one gun so far
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Old September 24, 2012, 09:24 AM   #21
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O/Sgroove

With the .312-.313 groove on my CZ52, the answer was softer lead with tin(to allow it to bump up?). My chamber will just barely allow .311 in the neck. A card wad under bullet and light loads cycle fine and no leading!
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Old September 24, 2012, 12:12 PM   #22
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You "may" need to be bigger. If the bore slugs at .312, you "should" be using .313" sizer, but your molds won't go that big(plus if the chamber allows). You are now depending on the bullet to bump up to seal, not the best. The softest alloy you can get away with is going to be the best, or you may end up just living with a bit of leading.
Only trying different things will tell you how good it will get.
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Old September 24, 2012, 07:39 PM   #23
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Interesting thread. I too am about to place an order for casting equipment. I had cast a little several years ago on a Coleman stove with a small cast iron casting pot and ladle. I had/have a Lee 452 255 RNFP single cavity mold.
I am about to decide to get two cavity molds to start with, as I don't know if my hands, fingers, and wrists will handle the weight of a six cavity mold.
I am planning to start with plain LLA until I kind of have the casting process down. Don't want to overload my brain with too many things at one time.
Let us know about your progress ronz.
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Old September 26, 2012, 07:45 AM   #24
ronz
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Tested out a couple different types of lubes with had success with 45-45-10 I took the wd unsized that I lubed with lla and lubed them twice with 45-45-10 so the wax groves were full loaded a little hotter with 6gr of unique (the most common load from what I have read so far) gun cycled real good power wise seems close to surplus
9 rounds no leading at all but I did have chambering problems on a few
The bullet is contacting the lands
I was seating the bullets between the wax groves so they were close to proper length at 1.350 surplus is 1.360 s&b 1.370 I can’t find a pulled bullet from a surplus round but iirc its longer than the cast will post the difference when I find one
I don’t like having the wax grove exposed so I set them deeper to see if that would cure it now 1.264 I also dropped the powder charge on some to compensate for the higher pressures so will have to work them back up to where I want them
The m-57 is based off of the tt-33 witch is reportedly almost impossible to blow up I would be a lot more cautious if using a cz-52
They didn’t pass the plunk test the slide should push them in but going size some and lube with 45-45-10 till the wax groves are full and try them hopefully they work with more lube and don’t lead the barrel and the ad are getting close to 2 weeks old so should be able to test some of them soon
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Old September 26, 2012, 08:48 PM   #25
ronz
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Well they worked fine shorter and unsized even at 6gr wouldn’t go higher though was starting to flatten the primers the relubbed sized at .309 I still got some leading
The bullets look kind of nasty with gobs of 45-45-10 on them so thought about getting a lube sizer and trying wax lubes until I saw the prices so think I’ll just get a lee 311 sizer ranch dip them then size them to get off the excess lube then do a normal tumble lube with 45-45-10
Found the bullet surplus is .551 my cast .540 so I am seating them .085 lower
Dickttx wish I would have started casting years ago its lot of fun even with buying your lead it’s a major cost saving plus the pride of shooting bullets that you made
A lot of great help to be had on here but you should also check out http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...ad.php?t=40260 http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm
Only thing I would have done different would be to get the molds for tumble lube
For lee they start with TL
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