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Old October 29, 2012, 12:54 PM   #1
JazzDoc
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Why are Walther P99 AS pistols so hard to find?

After trying a friend's at the range and loving it, I've been looking around for a Walther P99 AS 9mm pistol and had a helluva time finding one. I finally located one online, but what's the deal with that?
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Old October 29, 2012, 01:07 PM   #2
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While they seem to be very highly regarded among people who have actually shot one, they don't have a lot of name recognition with the population in general. So, relatively few get ordered by local gun dealers, and the ones that do get snapped up by people who have been looking for them.
Kinda the same deal with Colt 1911's - at least around here.

I was looking for one to try before I bought my PPQ, but never found one. As it turns out I'm very happy with the PPQ, but I still would like to try one some time.
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Old October 29, 2012, 01:29 PM   #3
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A pawn shop in my town has had one in stock, new-never fired, for almost a year.
If I had the 700 to spend on it, I would buy it in a heart beat.
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Old October 29, 2012, 01:36 PM   #4
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Thanks for the input, guys. I thought maybe they were phasing them out for the PPQ.

I think they're generally running around $600-650, though, BrokenBottles.
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Old October 29, 2012, 02:56 PM   #5
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Walther is also in the process of setting up its own US distribution (and I think manufacturing), and phasing out S&W. There are a number of intricacies which the people on Walther forum can detail, but this might also be the reason for a near-term shortage.
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Old October 29, 2012, 03:26 PM   #6
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Thanks for the input, guys. I thought maybe they were phasing them out for the PPQ.
Walther has made it clear that they have no intentions of discontinuing the P99AS model anytime in the foreseeable future. The P99QA model was discontinued with the introduction of the PPQ (which is just the US-market version of the P99RAD/P99Q, which has been on sale in Europe for a number of years).

Walther tends to ship to the US in large batches. P99s were plentiful in late 2010, and again in late 2011/early 2012. My guess is that they will start to show up in decent numbers again soon. There is usually a full-size P99AS on display at my favorite local gun store, but I haven't seen any compact P99c AS pistols lately.
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Old October 29, 2012, 07:03 PM   #7
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Thanks, Bond 007 and Fishbed77 for the input. Great forum here.
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Old October 29, 2012, 10:12 PM   #8
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Walther is also in the process of setting up its own US distribution (and I think manufacturing), and phasing out S&W.
Walther will not be manufacturing any of their pistols here.
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Old October 30, 2012, 01:47 PM   #9
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I think they're generally running around $600-650, though, BrokenBottles
Yeah, but I'm in Southern California so prices are higher since it's so hard to get any guns out here at times.

I thought they were looking for other distributors in the U.S. not setting up their own? I need to read more articles on companies and so many on just shooting...
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Old October 30, 2012, 02:34 PM   #10
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Walther will not be manufacturing any of their pistols here.
Although this is a slight thread hijack, S&W manufactures the PPK and PPK/S at their Houlton, ME plant, and AFAIK all of the recent press releases about the Walther-S&W distribution split clearly indicate that S&W production of these pistols will continue for the foreseeable future.

The PPK cannot be legally imported into the USA because of the ATF import points system. The PPK/S can be imported- this was the original impetus behind the design- but it presumably would make little sense to divide production between 2 plants for 2 very similar pistols.

OTOH the P99, PPQ, and PPS have always been imported from Germany; the licensed SW99 was previously built in Springfield, MA, but was axed several years ago in favor of the M&P.
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Old October 30, 2012, 08:32 PM   #11
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Although this is a slight thread hijack, S&W manufactures the PPK and PPK/S at their Houlton, ME plant, and AFAIK all of the recent press releases about the Walther-S&W distribution split clearly indicate that S&W production of these pistols will continue for the foreseeable future.
This is true, but what I meant was that Walther will not be manufacturing any pistols in the US as a result of this split.
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Old October 31, 2012, 12:27 PM   #12
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Just my own opinion here with nothin to back it up, but you don't find many Walthers because there are not many to find.

S&W has kept the lid on walther for many years. Can't really say I blame them; in my opinion walther makes a superior product. If you were the importer for a competitors product, would you really talk it up an take away from your sales? Take the shield for example: it's a pretty blatant PPS ripoff. If I was Walther I'd be awfully angry.

So, since sales are relatively low for walther (I think they are the least well known of all the major brands) not that many get imported. Think small demand results in small supply.

Now with the split from S&W hopefully walther can make a better headway into the US market. Walther does make one hell of a pistol.
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Old October 31, 2012, 02:01 PM   #13
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S&W has kept the lid on walther for many years... If you were the importer for a competitors product, would you really talk it up an take away from your sales?
While that's an interesting theory and arguably true today, I don't think it was true even 5 years ago. Prior to the release of the M&P line, S&W had very little to lose in promoting Walther products because they offered few products that directly competed with anything Walther made. Lack of promotion for the P99 made sense because S&W was successfully chasing American LE contracts with the license-built SW99 and Walther was getting a slice of the pie.

Even today, I think that S&W loses nothing by promoting the PPK line, since the company arguably doesn't offer anything that directly competes with it; the BG380 is quite different and IMHO appeals to a lower-end market segment.

I'd argue that another factor leading to this situation was Walther's historically conservative marketing philosophy. When it comes to full-size combat pistols, for many decades, Walther seemed to believe that European LE/military contracts were their meat and potatoes and that the American commercial market was just icing. The commercial P1/P38, P5, and P88 had very little American market presence. It's quite possible that the success of HK, SIG Sauer, and (most notably) Glock at playing both markets has caused Walther's management to change its philosophy.
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Old October 31, 2012, 04:22 PM   #14
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While that's an interesting theory and arguably true today, I don't think it was true even 5 years ago. Prior to the release of the M&P line, S&W had very little to lose in promoting Walther products because they offered few products that directly competed with anything Walther made. Lack of promotion for the P99 made sense because S&W was successfully chasing American LE contracts with the license-built SW99 and Walther was getting a slice of the pie.
Exactly. S&W has no real incentive to properly market the P99/PPQ as they compete directly with their M&P pistols. Likewise, the PPS is a competitor to the M&P Sheild.

The P99/PPQ sells at a slightly higher price point than the M&P, but the honest fact is that they are significantly better pistols in many respects (especially trigger feel and fit & finish). It probably just looks bad for S&W.
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Old October 31, 2012, 05:37 PM   #15
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I'd argue that another factor leading to this situation was Walther's historically conservative marketing philosophy. When it comes to full-size combat pistols, for many decades, Walther seemed to believe that European LE/military contracts were their meat and potatoes and that the American commercial market was just icing. The commercial P1/P38, P5, and P88 had very little American market presence. It's quite possible that the success of HK, SIG Sauer, and (most notably) Glock at playing both markets has caused Walther's management to change its philosophy.
I agree with this.

Walther products were also high in price compared to most of the competition (with the exception of H&K) up until the release of the PPQ.
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Old October 31, 2012, 10:14 PM   #16
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Walther products were also high in price compared to most of the competition (with the exception of H&K) up until the release of the PPQ.
The P99 has sold for about $600 or less for several years now. But with pretty much zero marketing from S&W, no one knew.
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Old November 1, 2012, 03:03 AM   #17
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The P99QA model was discontinued with the introduction of the PPQ
By the way, has the P99DAO been discontinued too?

(Walther had sold a lot of them in the European LE markert).
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Old November 1, 2012, 09:50 AM   #18
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By the way, has the P99DAO been discontinued too?
The P99DAO hasn't been sold in the US commercial market for years.

My guess is that Walther will still produce them for LE contract orders as required.
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Old November 1, 2012, 10:28 AM   #19
balance
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The P99 has sold for about $600 or less for several years now. But with pretty much zero marketing from S&W, no one knew.
I think the price drop happened around the time of the release of the PPQ, in early 2011. Before then, the MSRP for the P99 was around $800.

They still haven't changed the price on the .40 version in the website. In reality, they always sold for at least $100 less than MSRP though. I agree that S&W never really cared to market these pistols.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...03&isFirearm=Y

Quote:
By the way, has the P99DAO been discontinued too?

(Walther had sold a lot of them in the European LE markert).
The P99DAO is no longer sold to civilians, but it is still being produced for military and law enforcement contracts overseas.

From an E-mail directly from Walther, Germany:

Quote:
[No] longer in production are the Quick Action version which was replaced by the PPQ and the Double Action Only version as there is no demand on the civilian market for the DAO. The only DAO customers are law enforcement agencies but they have special needs and so each agency has [its] own version.
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p...r-germany.html

Last edited by balance; November 1, 2012 at 10:39 AM.
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Old November 1, 2012, 11:59 AM   #20
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I think the price drop happened around the time of the release of the PPQ, in early 2011. Before then, the MSRP for the P99 was around $800.
Bought my P99AS in mid 2010 for $599. That seemed to be the going price for at least 6 months prior to that.

Not sure exactly when the price drop occured, but it was well before the PPQ was even announced.
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Old November 1, 2012, 01:44 PM   #21
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Bought my P99AS in mid 2010 for $599. That seemed to be the going price for at least 6 months prior to that... Not sure exactly when the price drop occured...
If it was mid-2010, this was probably around the same time that S&W dropped M&P MSRP's by $40-$80 and more or less simultaneously stopped running the "$50 Rebate or Two Free Magazines" promotions on the pistols.

IIRC S&W had also run several $50-$75 rebate promotions on the P99 and PPS around that time, so perhaps this was an across-the-board change in marketing strategy!

FWIW P99's may have been $599 then, but IIRC the best price I ever saw on an M&P9/40 in 2010 was ~$500, and most stores wanted $525-$550. Now M&P's regularly sell for $475-$500 and go on sale for ~$450.
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Old November 1, 2012, 02:49 PM   #22
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Timing is everthing,
Months back CDNN was selling the P99Q and P99Q compact for $435 NIB

I found my P99 AS compact slightly used for $400 at my LGD a year ago.

3 months later they got in a almost new PPS with 3 mags for $400.
Both reliable shooters and total keepers. They are out there.
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Old November 1, 2012, 03:14 PM   #23
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Months back CDNN was selling the P99Q and P99Q compact for $435 NIB
The P99Q has never been sold in the US. You must be referring to the P99QA.

The P99Q, for all practical purposes, is the same pistol as the PPQ, however, the trigger design is slightly different.
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Old November 1, 2012, 03:24 PM   #24
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Not hard to find here in Texas. There is always someone trying to sell one.

Here's one http://texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=254742
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Old November 1, 2012, 03:53 PM   #25
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Order one from this shop: http://www.hyattgunstore.com/home.php?cat=402

Probably not the cheapest but I've done business with them for 30 yrs, Hyatt delivers, has serious connections and I'd guess they can get you the pistol you want pretty damn quick.

Good luck.
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