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Old September 22, 2012, 07:03 PM   #1
BlouZbee
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What am i doing wrong?

Hello everyone, im having a problem and i dont know what im doing wrong.

im trying to load 135 grain berrys plated .40 bullets. now, everything ive read says to use a light crimp. its seems that no matter how light or hard of a crimp i use i cant stop the bullet from seating deeper into the case after being chambered.

im using hornady .40 dies(3 die set) with a separate hornady taper crimp.

im going crazy here, what am i doing wrong?

-Matt
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Old September 22, 2012, 07:30 PM   #2
Woody55
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I am clueless. I don't crimp my .40 S&W, did experiments with chambering rounds and never had the overall length change.
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Old September 22, 2012, 07:37 PM   #3
olddav
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Maybe your over expanding the neck before you are seating the bullet.
If the neck is over sized the crimp will not hold the bullet in place.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:12 PM   #4
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i have explored the over expanding neck and that is not the problem. it is set JUST enough to get the bullet started to seat. thx for the suggestion.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:13 PM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
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Is this Remington brass by any chance?
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:16 PM   #6
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Ditto what olddav said. Case mouth tension is what holds a bullet in place, not the crimp. You are probably over expanding. Go back to your instructions for setting the expander die. Do just enough to be able to sit the bullet into the case mouth to keep it steady.

When the bullet seats deeper into the case when you chamber it, that's called "bullet setback." After you seat the bullet, do a very light crimp. This isn't really a crimp, but just removing the slight "flare" you created when you expanded the case. When done, take the completed round and push the nose of the bullet against your work bench, trying to push the bullet into the case. You shouldn't be able to. If you can, your settings are off. Get back to basics and you'll be fine.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:18 PM   #7
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Re post #4. If that's the case you might not be sizing the case fully. Suggest resetting the sizer die per instructions also.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:18 PM   #8
Bush Pirate
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What's your OAL before and after?
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:31 PM   #9
BlouZbee
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Its not the over expanding mouth, ive reset this 3 times.

yes it is Remington brass, UMC

i seat to 1.125, after first chamber its 1.122 and after the second chamber its 1.118

Last edited by BlouZbee; September 22, 2012 at 08:45 PM.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:34 PM   #10
Brian Pfleuger
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Remington handgun brass is known (at least in some instances) to be thin walled. Thin walled equals less bullet hold. I've never had any but I've seen more than a couple TFL members say they won't use it.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:57 PM   #11
BlouZbee
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just tried it with federal brass and i have the same results.

can it be these short 135 gr bullets?
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:09 PM   #12
Brian Pfleuger
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Wait?

.007 after being chambered twice?

Are you PLANNING to keep cycling your ammo over and over?

I wouldn't bat an eyelash over .007 after twice chambering.
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:18 PM   #13
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that puts it under the books min OAL. isnt that dangerous? at what point should i worry? i read .40 is a picky and high pressure
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:18 PM   #14
olddav
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Just for grins, mic the case and compare it to a factory round, and .007" is not much movement. Do any of your factory rounds OAL change when chambered?
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:29 PM   #15
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You'll probably get .007 variance just in bullet production variance. You have to be careful with setback related pressures in many handgun cartridges but .007 is not an issue. The .003 you get on the first cycle is less than irrelevant.
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:39 PM   #16
BlouZbee
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mine before 1.124
1st chamber 1.120
2nd chamber 1.113
3rd chamber 1.107

factory before 1.123 -
after 1.123
2nd 1.122
3rd 1.122
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:43 PM   #17
BlouZbee
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i guess im just being paranoid. my main goal here is to be safe. i value my guns and i value all 10 of my fingers
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:50 PM   #18
Brian Pfleuger
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It's good to ask but you don't have an issue if the numbers stay that small.
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:56 PM   #19
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I checked in QuickLoad to see what it predicts the pressure change might be on .007 with a 135gr bullet in .40SW.

With a max charge of Power Pistol, going from 1.135 to 1.128 made a difference of about 900psi, about the same as 0.1gr powder.

Went from 34,486psi to 35,360psi
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Old September 22, 2012, 10:09 PM   #20
BlouZbee
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i have plated bullets so berrys says use jacketed data and stay in the middle. i have data for 135gr jhp rounds start 5.8 max 6.4, if i use 6.0 even with the slight setback im gtg. correct?
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Old September 22, 2012, 10:19 PM   #21
Brian Pfleuger
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Yes, 900psi is at max pressure. Less pressure will be less difference, but 900psi wouldn't matter if you WERE at max.
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Old September 22, 2012, 10:45 PM   #22
BlouZbee
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thank you all
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Old September 22, 2012, 10:56 PM   #23
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It's sometimes hard to get good neck tension using plated bullets. If you crimp too much, then the thin copper plating will return shape, while the soft lead core remains deformed.

I haven't used the Hornady die, but the Lee Factory Crimp die seems to do well with plated bullets, at least for me. I usually adjust the crimp little by little until I get none or very, very little setback. It's a pretty inexpensive die, might be worth trying.
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Old September 23, 2012, 08:10 AM   #24
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fix

Acquire a LEE 'U' undersized sizing die. This die will size used cases further, potenially increasing case neck tension.

Safety first.
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Old September 23, 2012, 01:02 PM   #25
drail
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Measure the ball or plug in your expander die. It is almost surely too large in diameter for the bullet you are using. You can turn it down in a drill until it's 3 or 4 thous. smaller than your bullet. You should be able to seat a bullet and press the nose of the cartridge against the edge of your bench hard and it should not move (before crimping). If it does your expander is too big. If your expander is correctly sized and you still see bullet movement then your sizing die is out of spec (not sizing down enough) And Remington brass is made from from thin brass. Avoid it. On semi auto rounds the crimp serves only to remove the flare. It does not hold the bullet in the case.

Last edited by drail; September 23, 2012 at 01:08 PM.
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