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Old September 20, 2012, 09:55 PM   #1
Newton24b
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physical injury

read the article about big heavy recoiling guns cause hand / nerve damage. its in this months edition of shooing or handgunner. cant remember a way to differentiate.

thing is, if heavy recoiling cartridges/loads are not great for extensive use then how can we say its good to do 3000 rounds of 38+p or 357 through an lcr for a range test?

isnt this the sign you shouldnt call someone an idiot for using 44 special in a 40 ounce 44 mag?
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Old September 21, 2012, 02:36 AM   #2
mete
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Normal people just pick the gun and cartridge that suits the needs .
Abnormal ones ask 'how hot can I load it ?'
Abnormal ones use the heaviest recoil ones to 'prove they're a man'

Use a cartridge that you can fire a significant rounds in a day without pain or developing a flinch, or becoming sore.
When I was shooting metallic silhouette matches I could do that with my just under max loads .Those who tried to use hotter loads always realized that what they gained in knockdown power they lost in accuracy.
Know you limits a practice often.
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Old September 21, 2012, 08:20 AM   #3
dyl
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I haven't read that article but I did read a post on this forum where the poster blamed his elbow bursitis or arthritis (there goes my memory) on shooting hot magnums. I hadn't considered that before.

It also likely depends on how frequenty we shoot the heavy recoil loadings - aside from how strong each impulse is. I know I personally don't shoot magnums frequently enough to cause a problem - I don't load 357 yet and buying them would be too expensive for me.

Lately I've been more cautious with my hearing too and I always double up. I'd imagine high volume of magnums would over time have a more detrimental effect on hearing.
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Old September 21, 2012, 12:35 PM   #4
Frank Ettin
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There are times when a heavily recoiling handgun will be chosen because it does suit one's particular needs. Someone might have good reason to carry a .454 Casul or .500 S&W for handgun hunting or tramping in bear country. Or someone might have a particular legitimate reason for carrying a light weight, alloy frame .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum revolver.

But I have also heard of people who have suffered hand, wrist, forearm or elbow injury from shooting big bruisers over too long a period. I believe gun writer John Taffin had that experience.

So it seems to make sense to limit one's exposure to heavy handgun recoil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton24b
...then how can we say its good to do 3000 rounds of 38+p or 357 through an lcr for a range test?...
Who says it's good to do that. Why would anyone want to do that?
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Old September 21, 2012, 01:08 PM   #5
Bob Wright
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Well, I for one, have experienced no physical problems related to shooting magnums nor heavy loaded .44 Special or .45 Colt ammunition.

I first experimented with heavy .44 Special loads around 1953 or 1954, and have shot a full range of hard kicking stuff up to the .45-70. This amounts to some quarter million rounds fired over nearly sixty years. Maybe its the way I shoot or my grip, but never felt any damage except to my hand when using rubber or ill-fitting grips.

I do have a ringing in my ears from lack of ear protection, but that came as a result of 90mm tank guns and/or 106 mm recoilless rifles.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a macho man by any means, but I believe those who have problems have it because of diet, life style, or some cause from natural aging.

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Old September 21, 2012, 01:12 PM   #6
MLeake
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Tennis elbow is not known as "bad diet elbow."

Karateka typically seem to have arthritic knuckles, when they get old, due to thousands on thousands of punches delivered to makiwara boards... should they have been attributing this instead to rice and soy intake?

Typically, pain is the body's way of saying, "what you are doing may, or will, or may already have come at a price, and you might want to stop."
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Old September 21, 2012, 01:20 PM   #7
plouffedaddy
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Quote:
thing is, if heavy recoiling cartridges/loads are not great for extensive use then how can we say its good to do 3000 rounds of 38+p or 357 through an lcr for a range test?
I would absolutely say it's not good to do that. That many rounds in one day outside of combat is pointless in my opinion. There's certainly a point of diminishing returns when it comes to training value and number of rounds fired in a day.
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Old September 21, 2012, 01:20 PM   #8
Bob Wright
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MLeake wrote:

Quote:
Tennis elbow is not known as "bad diet elbow."
That's very true, but I know many tennis players who have never developed tennis elbow. The point I was trying to make is that it is a combination of things that causes such maladies.

My wife had a torn rotator cuff, never pitched baseball in her life.

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Old September 22, 2012, 06:06 AM   #9
thedudeabides
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Any repeated trauma can cause nerve injury and degenerative arthritis.
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Old September 22, 2012, 06:15 AM   #10
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Well I have to be honest I regularly shoot and actually love to shoot pistolgrip only 12 gauge (Mossberg). I first learned to shoot with a Marlin 795 .22lr. And when thinking back on that, shooting a 3 inch slug is a lot more fun because of the adrenaline, feel, and the big ol bang. But once I'm done shooting about 23 shells I need a bag of ice! LOL Good times!!!
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Old September 22, 2012, 07:42 AM   #11
KyJim
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Quote:
thing is, if heavy recoiling cartridges/loads are not great for extensive use then how can we say its good to do 3000 rounds of 38+p or 357 through an lcr for a range test?
Frankly, extended range sessions (rounds, not time) become more like work and less like fun to me. I can't remember ever doing a session of more than about 175-200 centerfire pistol cartridges. I more typically shoot 100 to 125 centerfire rounds max. By a "session," I mean continuous shooting, stopping for target changes, sight adjustments, etc. I'm not talking about shooting, taking lunch, and shooting some more.
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Old September 22, 2012, 07:54 AM   #12
Hal
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Quote:
isn't this the sign you shouldn't call someone an idiot for using 44 special in a 40 ounce 44 mag?
All depends on what they have to stop or drop w/that .44....

Quote:
I first experimented with heavy .44 Special loads around 1953 or 1954, and have shot a full range of hard kicking stuff up to the .45-70. This amounts to some quarter million rounds fired over nearly sixty years. Maybe its the way I shoot or my grip, but never felt any damage except to my hand when using rubber or ill-fitting grips.
<snip>
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a macho man by any means, but I believe those who have problems have it because of diet, life style, or some cause from natural aging.
You have me by 2 decades there...
I got into the heavy hitting .44mag loads in the 1970's.
I never went above the .44mag - but - a 24 gr load of Hercules 2400 under a 240 grain slug - is a stout load (I was going to say in anyone's book - but - that load is well above "book").

Anyhow - I noticed the comment about rubber grips. Does that mean you don't use them?
I find that curious.
If that's the case, then you and I are in a definite minority there.
I detest rubber grips. Not only are they too "grabby", I never felt any supposed cushioning effect using them.

Also Re: "Life style"...
Wouldn't an "addiction" to "big boomers" be part of "life style"?
I know in my own case, early on (as witnessed by the above over book load), I was all about getting the biggest boom I could possibly get.
As accurate shot placement became my primary goal, my "lust for power" diminished.
My "life style" shifted in that regard.
Instead of seeking to make a lot of noise - and miss a lot - I began to take more note of the actual purpose and function each part of the ballistic puzzle plays.
Now, my "life style" is a lot more sedate & it's reflected in my belief that a 240 grain swaged lead hollow point semi wad cutter loaded to just shy of sonic (1100 fps) will do everything needed done out to 25 yards.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:50 AM   #13
Bob Wright
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Hal wrote:

Quote:
Anyhow - I noticed the comment about rubber grips. Does that mean you don't use them?
I find that curious.
If that's the case, then you and I are in a definite minority there.
I detest rubber grips. Not only are they too "grabby", I never felt any supposed cushioning effect using them.

My first experience with rubber grips came when i was introduced to the Thompson Contender. I was shooting several different calibers, starting out with a .30-30 as an introductory trial, then working up to the .45-70. The gun was fitted with Pachmyers, and by the end of the day my hand was blistered and raw. Those grips rolled up a little fold of skin in the web of my hand and rolled it until it was raw.

I tried them again on a K-Framed Smith & wesson but found they offered too much "grab" for fast good shooting, as I could not shift my hand as needed between draw and firing. And, in time they get an unpleasant feeling, sort of sticky-mushy feeling.

Bob Wright

P.S. I see you're located in Ohio. It was in Ohio that I had this experience with Thompson Contenders, near a little town named Cadiz, near Steubenville. A man over in Wintersville had made some custom barrels for Contenders.
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:16 AM   #14
Hal
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I remember the place that made the custom Contender barrels down there, but, danged if I can recall it.
I lusted after a Contender in .444Marlin at one time & that was the only place you could get the barrel back then.

Like I say though,,,I outgrew that stage before I scraped together the money to buy one.
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