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Old August 11, 2012, 04:45 AM   #1
Mac Sidewinder
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What a mess

My son and I were shooting some reloads of mine yesterday and I stuck one in the barrel of my Ruger GP100. I have been using this load for quite a while now without any problems and I'm not sure if it was a light drop from my Lee Pre Auto Disk powder measure or what. Here is the load I am using:

Berry's Plated 148gr HBWC .38 cal
Bullseye @ 3.0gr
OAL 1.200 (seated almost flush)
CCI 500 primers

I had to use a brass cleaning rod to remove the bullet - It stuck about 1/3 of the way down the barrel and was stuck so bad that it came out in pieces. It took alot of blows with a hammer to remove. There is still some copper plating stuck on one wall that kind of looks like a quarter moon. I can pass a cleaning brush through the barrel and I have tried to clean it to no avail.

I have two questions:

1. This must have been a squib since if it was too hot then I would think that it would have blew off the skirting off the bullet and left it in the barrel instead of the whole bullet. If it was a squib how come the copper plating fused to the inside of the barrel making it so difficult to remove.?

2. What is a good copper cleaner/disolver that you can use that is safe for the barrel? I heard that a product called KG-12 Big Bore Cleaning Solvent was good for this.

I don't have a chrono to see how fast I am pushing these bullets but Berry's site says you need to push them at least 800fps and less than 1200. I ordered a chrono tonight - its the Shooting Chrony 7000129 Beta Master Chronograph, Blue.

Thanks for the help

Mac
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Old August 11, 2012, 05:55 AM   #2
Misssissippi Dave
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The only question I can answer is about KG12. It will probably get rid of the copper. It will take time to do the job. Hoppes #9 might also work. I prefer KG products. They do work as advertised.
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Old August 11, 2012, 07:58 AM   #3
RWNielsen
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Hoppes' Bench Rest has a copper solvent in it and I use it on my 6" Gp100
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Old August 11, 2012, 08:16 AM   #4
rmorgan9718
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Brass wool

get some brass wool (like steel wool, but softer than barrel, but harder than lead or copper), wrap strands around worn out brush, use Hoppe's #9, and brush away. Some elbow grease and a little time should do the trick.

you might consider looking at the remaining bullets, checking for seams/cracks in the plating? have heard that sometimes the plating will crack and cause a similar 'squib'.

just my $0.02 worth.

rick
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Old August 11, 2012, 08:36 AM   #5
rtpzwms
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Quote:
my Lee Pre Auto Disk powder measure
The Auto Disk seems to have problems with light powder loads <5 grains. It seems that you had everything set up for this.... Not a fault of yours if you didn't know. But flake powders and the light load are a really bad combo for the auto disk. Find a ball powder and it gets a little better. There are many people here and on other forums that have built vibrators for the auto disk. I think that would be the most helpful thing you could do for this load.

You still have to be very cautious with the light loads but it will help a lot. If you have an opening get a powder cop die for the press to help keep you alert to over/under drops.
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Old August 11, 2012, 08:56 AM   #6
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Check to see if the barrel is damaged from hammering the bullet out. If the brass cleaning rod fit the barrel loosely this is a possibility and may be why the copper is stuck there. Yes brass and aluminum will damage steel. If you hit it hard enough it will dent it.
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Old August 11, 2012, 10:28 AM   #7
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This is another reason I load in batches of 50 rounds and the cases are inspected while in the loading block with a flashlight for the proper charge before seating the bullet. A light charge is very easy to be seen.

Regarding the removal of the copper plating I would suggest Montana X-Treme or Sweet's 7.62 solvent and a small wad of COPPER Chore Boy wrapped on an old cleaning brush the correct caliber.
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Old August 11, 2012, 10:55 AM   #8
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Be very careful when using the copper solvents like sweets, M. X-Treme and 7.62. They contain ammonia. If left in the barrel too long, it WILL attack the barrel steel. As in= pit the bore!

KG-12 is a non-ammonia cleaner that dissolves copper and is water based. It should be able to loosen that chunk of plating so it can be pushed out by a brush. Plug that barrel, fill it with KG-12, let it soak overnight.
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Old August 11, 2012, 11:44 AM   #9
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The Auto Disk seems to have problems with light powder loads <5 grains.
In my experience I have only had problems with the adjustable charge bar going under 5 grains. I use many powder with charges under 5 grains and with the disks they have all been very consistant.
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Old August 11, 2012, 03:02 PM   #10
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3 gr of Bullseye is great for the 148 gr lead wadcutter, but mine are nowhere close to 800 fps velocity. Mine run anywhere from 700 to 760 fps depending on the barrel length. So I will be interested in seeing what your Chrono numbers will be. Please let us know the results. I was thinking of trying Berrys 148 gr wadcutters till I saw they had to be over 800 in velocity, I thought that defeated the whole light shooting and accurate round. Sorry to here about the squib, what's the barrel lenght of the GP-100?
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Old August 11, 2012, 05:00 PM   #11
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I'm starting to get a little peeved at the plated bullet companies. They know that there are big differences between plated and lead, yet they continue to drag their feet when it comes to giving us good, safe data.

Quote:
This is another reason I load in batches of 50 rounds and the cases are inspected while in the loading block with a flashlight for the proper charge before seating the bullet. A light charge is very easy to be seen.
That's the only way I will load revolver or rifle cartridges.

Mac Sidewinder, if you're going to stick with your Lee measure, consider a spherical powder like AA#2. I would also consider the plated DEWC for your next order. For me, they are just as accurate as the plated HBWC with no skirt dangers. I drive them up to 900 fps in magnum brass.
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Old August 11, 2012, 05:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
I had to use a brass cleaning rod to remove the bullet
If you ever need to slug a barrel or drive a stuck squib out, select a brass rod that fills the bore. For a .38 barrel, use a 5/16" diameter rod. I am going to guess the diameter of your cleaning rod was closer to 3/16" diameter. Using a small diameter rod it will drive into the center of the bullet and actually serve to expand it. This causes it to be much more difficult to drive out. Adding some oil will also reduce the friction once you get it to move. Your risk of damaging a barrel will also be reduced.

A plated slug should have been reasonably easy to drive out with the proper tools.
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Old August 11, 2012, 06:11 PM   #13
wingman
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2-tips, use Kroil oil to remove a squib, soak barrel let set few mins then use a hard wood dowel, normally they will slip out with ease,second tip,us a LED light pointed on your case as you reload and monitor each drop visually.
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Old August 11, 2012, 09:19 PM   #14
Mac Sidewinder
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rgrundy - I don't see any damage to the barrel - just a half ridge of debris left over from the bullet.

bossman - my Gp100 has a 6in barrel - I am very paranoid about reloading and I visually check each case to ensure it has powder in it (I have a led light shining into the case at that stage) but when the charge is only 3.0 gr I wonder if I could tell if my powder measure dropped only lets say 2.5grs? Combine that with your velocity of between 700 - 760fps instead of at least 800fps that Berry says you need, I wonder if that may have lead to the problem. I just ordered my Chrony and I will let you know when I get it what my loads are running at.

Hammerhead - I think I will try the dewcs next time - thanks for the tip

jepp2 - this is exactly what happened - I drove the center out with a small rod and couldn't get all of the remaining bullet out. I will get me a 5/16 brass rod for the future. I take it Hoppes gun oil would work alright as a lubricant?

Thanks to all for the tips - I just started reloading a few months ago so I am pretty cautious with my loads - I guess that can cause problems on the low end also. Just one more reason I wanted to get a chronograph.

Mac
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Old August 12, 2012, 07:41 AM   #15
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I say bullet. I say the heat went around the bullet and exited the barrel before the bullet did. Wait a minute...yes...yes...my crystal ball...it's becoming more clear....Good Luck. Peace.
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Old August 12, 2012, 09:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Be very careful when using the copper solvents like sweets, M. X-Treme and 7.62. They contain ammonia. If left in the barrel too long, it WILL attack the barrel steel. As in= pit the bore!
Yup! Thats why you should read the instructions!
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Old August 12, 2012, 04:49 PM   #17
slugoo
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Don't get a bigger brass rod that tore up the bullet, wingman had it right, get a 5/16th wood dowell at the lumber yard or hardware store and use it. I've stuck one like you did and the wood dowell knocked it right out and will never hurt your lands in the barrel. Charlie
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Old August 12, 2012, 05:34 PM   #18
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Brass rod, OK. NEVER, EVER use a wood dowel to drive out a stuck bullet or to try to slug a barrel. If it splits and locks around or onto the barrel obstruction it wedges itself tighter with every blow. You have never had fun till you start trying to figure out some way to get the split, wedged in dowel out of your barrel. I have removed many for customers thru the years and am amazed that people still do this. Goatwhiskers
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Old August 12, 2012, 07:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
This is another reason I load in batches of 50 rounds and the cases are inspected while in the loading block with a flashlight for the proper charge before seating the bullet. A light charge is very easy to be seen.
A light charge is just as easy to see in a turret as it is in a loading block. I have never batch loaded a handgun round, nor do I intend to. I have also never loaded a handgun round without visually inspecting the charge, nor do I intend to do that, either. For .380/9mm cases I inspect in the shellholder, for .38/.357 I remove the case, check the charge, then seat the bullet and replace the case in the shellholder.

batch loading is not safer than turret loading if your turret loading process is as safe as your batch loading process. ok, that sentence makes my head hurt, but you get the idea...
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Old August 12, 2012, 08:07 PM   #20
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Brass rod, OK. NEVER, EVER use a wood dowel to drive out a stuck bullet or to try to slug a barrel.
+1

I always used oak dowels sucessfully in revolvers, but after reading some of the horror stories about wood dowels that broke and wedged into the barrel (even when no defect in the wood grain could be detected visually) I retired my oak dowels from driving bullets.

Brass properly used will do absolutely no damage to the barrel and will be much more effective at driving the bullet without the risk of a broken wedged dowel rod.
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Old August 13, 2012, 04:11 PM   #21
Hammerhead
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I used a wood dowel, but it fit the bore well and the bullet was a wadcutter, so there were no issues.

When I stuck a 9mm plated RN in my CZ, I though I was SOL. Eureka! I took a copper Chore Boy and cut it up into strands. I packed the strands down on top of the bullet until I felt there was enough of a buffer between the dowel and the bullet. Drove out the bullet with no trouble, the copper strands formed a perfect 'nest' around the bullet's nose and were even engraved with the rifling.

I've wondered if you couldn't do the same thing with shot buffer or even lead shot.
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Old August 18, 2012, 05:18 AM   #22
Mac Sidewinder
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tkglazie - I also remove 38/357 cases from the shellholder and visually inspect each load. I was wondering how hard it would be to see a .5gr difference of bullseye in a 38 case so I loaded one tonight with 3.0gr and one with 2.5gr and it's almost impossible to tell the difference at just a glance in the case. I think my problem stemmed from the fact that Berry's hbwc have to be driven at least 800fps and I may have been right on the line for that speed. I didn't have a chrono to measure. If there was a light chage I don't think that I would have noticed that little difference but it may have been enough to drop the speed low enough to stick the bullet.

Anyway now I have a chrono and if/when I can get the rest of the bullet fragment out I will test the speed of a 3.0gr charge. I guess my next step is to get a 5/16 brass rod and try that. I already let it soak for 24 hours with kg-12 but that didn't remove it.

Mac
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Old August 18, 2012, 06:53 AM   #23
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Mac

I`d feel more comfortable with a small brass rod & catch it on the peice of copper even if ya have to shape the business end & tap on it .

I`ve lost some of the copper coating in the barrels of my GPs & instead of knarling a brush I used the method above .

Copper coated bullets have a certain window they like as far as FPS goes , but have`nt stuck 1 - - YET.

I`ve been waiting to see if soakin was gonna do it , if ya have patience & wanna try some more soaking try brakleening the barrel to make the metal thristy as the brakleen will strip all lubes away instantly ,then a liberal soaking of synthetic trans fluid , it`ll soak thru a milk jug so it has to have good creeping .
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Old August 18, 2012, 07:23 AM   #24
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I load Berry's 148gr DEWC on a LCT with the Autodisk Pro and was having to measure every single charge of Unique at 3.3gr. Sometimes it would be just fine for 10 rounds at a time, then drop to 1.5gr and the next one would be 4.5gr.

It was too much of a hassle and a worry, so I switched to HP38 (same as W231). Using the smallest cavity (0.30cc) it drops 3.1-3.3 grains EVERY time. I've weighed probably 100 charges and have not once seen something outside of that range.

Bullseye flakes are smaller than Unique, but it would probably still bridge at low powder charges due to the diameter of the cavity. I still have some Unique and haven't had any problems loading 45ACP at 5.2gr under 200gr LSWC, so flak powders can be very consistent as long as the cavity is large enough (0.66cc for 5.2gr Unique).

Consider switching powders for light loads and the inconsistency problem will go away.
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Old August 18, 2012, 12:35 PM   #25
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This is another reason I load in batches of 50 rounds and the cases are inspected while in the loading block with a flashlight for the proper charge before seating the bullet. A light charge is very easy to be seen.
^Me too. Keeping it simple avoids a lot of mistakes. I haven't found a need for more than a single-stage press and loading block - at least for my revolvers and rifles. Guess I'd think about a progressive if I shot a whole lot of pistol. I also don't understand the reason for plated wadcutters. My cast wadcutters never leave lead in the bore - soft lead and low velocity are a good combination.

For really light loads I use one of those Lee yellow scoops. The smallest one comes out to about 2.8 grains of Bullseye which is perfect for 148 grain wadcutters (which I cast myself - bullet cost is next to nothing). For most everything else I use a Lyman 55 measure.
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