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Old September 30, 2012, 09:56 AM   #51
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I like OC spray for dealing with hostile animals (not just dogs...had to use it on an opossum once when I didn't have a gun handy). Often, spraying a "line" b/t you & the animal is enough to turn them away. When it isn't, spraying their muzzle changes their mind.

As a former TYC (TX youth prison) employee, I had been sprayed in training. It was distracting, but I could still function well enough to fight. Some others fell down & couldn't function at all. This experience taught me that, if you use OC on a human, be prepared to follow it with another technique to defend yourself (strikes, kicks, blunt force, etc.)
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Old November 8, 2012, 01:08 PM   #52
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Hey all,

I am new to the forum and this is my first post. I have a comment and a question. I'll start with the question:

I have a GP100 .357 which I keep for home defense purposes. Does anybody have any experience with effective non-lethal rounds in a .357 or .38 spl? Rubber bullets, etc.... If any truly effective non-lethal rounds exist, it would be my preference to use them.


In life I'm a practicing attorney. The ability to use lethal force varies from state to state, as many have commented. But please also know that statutes (which can be difficult to understand for even someone trained to do so) only tell part of the story. Other things to consider include case law interpreting those statutes and the discretion of the prosecuting authority. I only say this because I saw some good-natured but perhaps misguided comments on the ability to use lethal force, and I don't want any of you folks getting in trouble, especially in situations involving self-defense.


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Old November 8, 2012, 03:15 PM   #53
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No such thing as "non-lethal" bullets. Rubber bullets may be less likely to produce a fatal would, but they still can. Regardless of what it is loaded with, your gun is considered deadly force.

The question you need to ask is if you are faced with a situation where deadly force is warranted, are you willing and capable of possibly killing your assailant? If not, you may want to re-think carrying a lethal weapon.
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Old November 9, 2012, 05:06 PM   #54
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Here is a study on the effectiveness and potential danger of pepper spray.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:23 PM   #55
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Sadly, some people in certain states are not allowed to carry a handgun. Through no fault of their own, they are restricted by local law enforcement from the right to protect themselves. In such cases I would strongly advocate training with and carrying at all times some form of pepper spray/tear gas. Where I live, people may own handguns and yet be prohibited from carrying them. Depends on what town you reside in and if the Chief LEO wants to issue a non restricted license.
In a situation where a person may need to defend themselves, I would rather have a can of spray, knife or bat than nothing. Certainly a firearm is better. But even with the revolver, I like knowing that the spray is in my pocket.
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Old November 10, 2012, 11:30 PM   #56
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Sadly, some people in certain states are not allowed to carry a handgun. Through no fault of their own, they are restricted by local law enforcement from the right to protect themselves.
Sounds like these people need to get involved to oust the anti gun politicians they've elected into office.
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Old November 11, 2012, 12:39 AM   #57
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Surprised no one has posted this for encounters outside the home.

This is what I go by in judging a situation.

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Old November 11, 2012, 12:48 AM   #58
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It's useful for perspective, but not directly applicable to non-LEO.

(Same continuum they used for training Navy security forces in the early 90's, by the way.)
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Old November 11, 2012, 05:19 PM   #59
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For police officers, that use of force continuum is applicable, but as Mike said, it is not as useful for civilians.

That continuum is most applicable when affecting an arrest. Civilians rarely make arrests and as a result "soft techniques" are not useful (with the exception of pepper spray).

We as civilians should not be involved in a physical confrontation with another unless it was brought on by an aggressor in which case we should immediately skip level 3 and move to level 4 (which is where I would include pepper spray) or 5.
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Old November 11, 2012, 10:07 PM   #60
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The point I was trying to make was that with proper training you should know when or when no to shoot. With the force continuum as a guide you can better understand when and when not to shoot. If you can end a confrontation by words or just by walking away you should. Deadly force should only be used as a last resort instead of the first resort.
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Old November 23, 2012, 11:49 AM   #61
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As a correctional officer I taught unarmed self defense and expandable baton tactics. Since I am lucky enough to live in a state that allows concealed carry of other weapons besides a firearm I also carry an expandable baton.
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Old November 23, 2012, 01:16 PM   #62
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I worked in the Texas prison system and can assure you that using Chemical agents will almost certainly zap you, too! Being hit with a chemical agent will ruin your defense and/or escape! Deranged or mental Offenders eat the stuff and it has virtually NO stopping effect on them.

I rode my bicycles 3,414 miles in 2011 and was attacked by dogs on several occasions. One dog bit me and I called the county Sheriffs Deputies to file a complaint. They TOLD me to carry an ASP baton. I questioned that saying that I heard they were against the law to carry. They said no. I have my CHL but I'm not going to shoot some kid's dog. Besides, it is said that each round in your carry pistol has a $20,000 price tag on it. I'm not going to open that can of worms! I now have a 26" ASP affixed to each one of my bikes.

When my dog Jake and I walk, I carry a CaneMaster martial arts cane. I studied the techniques and the darned canes are brutal!

I will expend every option before I use my carry gun. If I can neutralize an attacker without shooting him/her, I will do that.

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