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Old September 19, 2012, 11:31 AM   #1
clinttbrooks
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Double powder load

A friend loaded 1,000 shells for our upcoming dove hunting trip. He said he realized he "double powder" loaded two of the shells and was unable to find them.

I have two questions...1, is there any way to find these shells?

2, I'm shooting a 20 guage Remington pump 870, should I shoot these reloads if we can't find the double powder loaded ones?

Last edited by clinttbrooks; September 19, 2012 at 11:38 AM.
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Old September 19, 2012, 11:40 AM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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1)No.

2)Hell no

3)Should I ever use this fellows reloads ever again? No.


How could he POSSIBLY know that he overcharged two, and only two, but not WHICH two? That makes no sense at all.
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Old September 19, 2012, 11:50 AM   #3
William T. Watts
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I'd spring for factory shells, never never never take a chance where safety/damage may occur. Never trust your (friend) again when it involves ammunition, that's downright scary! William
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Old September 19, 2012, 11:59 AM   #4
NWPilgrim
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If it were my reloads I would disassemble all 1,000. Recover what I can and figure out how to absolutely prevent that mistake in the future.

If I made a mistake on "two" that I realized later, then I could have made other mistakes and not realized them. Under no conditions should anyone shoot any of those shells.

Cannot imagine how he realized the mistake after the fact and that it was exactly two. At least he notified you.
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Old September 19, 2012, 12:03 PM   #5
Mike Irwin
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Well, how did he determine that he dropped two powder charges in only two of those?

I've reloaded some shotgun over the years, about 20,000 rounds or so (but, almost all the exact same target load), and what strikes me is that in most modern loads using today's wads, if you double up on the powder charge I would think it would throw your ability to crimp the shell properly off quite a bit.

You might not even be able to get the crimp set because of the additional height of the powder makes the shot column go above the crimp line.

IF, however, he did overcharge one AND it took a normal crimp, there really wouldn't be any way of telling for sure...

Until the barrel on your shotgun blows wide open...
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Old September 19, 2012, 12:09 PM   #6
tkglazie
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Quote:
in most modern loads using today's wads, if you double up on the powder charge I would think it would throw your ability to crimp the shell properly off quite a bit.

You might not even be able to get the crimp set because of the additional height of the powder makes the shot column go above the crimp line.
thats the same thought I had. I can see double or triple charging a .38 target load, but a shotgun shell is full when you crimp it.
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Old September 19, 2012, 12:10 PM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin
... if you double up on the powder charge I would think it would throw your ability to crimp the shell properly off quite a bit.

You might not even be able to get the crimp set because of the additional height of the powder makes the shot column go above the crimp line.
I was curious about that too but wasn't sure, having never loaded shotgun.
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Old September 19, 2012, 12:58 PM   #8
sgms
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As for me I would break them all down. But if you really have to look for them try putting each round a a good digital scale set to grams and see if you can find the heavy ones. It will be a small difference 1 gram = 15.43 grains. Like I said I wouldn't shoot them.
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Old September 19, 2012, 01:04 PM   #9
clinttbrooks
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Thanks for all the responses. I don't know much about reloading, but I know he uses one of the expensive reloaders that works like an assembly line, and has several hoppers holding all of your bulk supplies.

He noticed the double powder right after it happened, but the loader was dropping all of the shells into a bucket below. I'm not sure why he just didn't rake off the top layer of shells.

I think I'll take all of your recommendations and shoot some Remington ShurShots.

-Clint
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Old September 19, 2012, 02:16 PM   #10
mrawesome22
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^^^ Good idea.

sudo passwd root
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Old September 19, 2012, 02:53 PM   #11
dwhite
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A farmer got tired of kids stealing his watermelons from his field so he put up a sign saying "One of these melons has been injected with cyanide. Eat at your own risk".

This worked for a few nights until one morning he found written on the sign
"Now there are TWO!".


All the Best,
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Old September 19, 2012, 03:16 PM   #12
wncchester
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Anyone who has loaded shot shells knows it would be difficult if not impossible to double charge a shell and close it but the hazard of a double charged load is too serious to take a chance that he made a mistake about making a mistake. Buy new ammo!

If HE shoots all of them without something suddenly coming from together, fine. If not, it was his own doing so don't let him sue the loading press maker to get paid for his missing fingers and eyes.
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Old September 19, 2012, 03:39 PM   #13
Lost Sheep
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Sure there is

Quote:
Originally Posted by post #2
1)No.

2)Hell no

3)Should I ever use this fellows reloads ever again? No.

Where there's a will, there's a way.
Either an x-ray machine or, more likely, a flouroscope can show the powder charge.

Have you got friends in TSA? Medical office? Industrial Quality Control laboratory?

So, my answers are

1) probably possible but not likely
2) hell no
3) what do you mean "again"?

Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; September 19, 2012 at 11:29 PM.
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Old September 19, 2012, 04:09 PM   #14
sidewindr
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Depending on how much weight variances shotgun shell normally have, it may be possibly to weigh them all and find the ones that are the charge weight higher than the rest.
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Old September 19, 2012, 04:22 PM   #15
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Musta been a lahahalarge bucket!

Not a threadjack, but what's the moral of this story?
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Old September 19, 2012, 04:22 PM   #16
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Hope he was using Uniqe
Y/D
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Old September 19, 2012, 04:40 PM   #17
Edward429451
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I used 19.0 grains of Unique with 1-1/8 oz loads. An extra 19.0 grains of Unique would be enough to at least make the crimp bulge. How much did he use for a Dove load? I'd look for the bad crimps and tear them apart with a scale handy. Does he have an extra shotgun you could use that weekend?
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Old September 19, 2012, 05:28 PM   #18
BigJimP
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No - you can't tell which ones are bad....

No - don't fire any of those shells....

Quit using this guy .......
-------------
yes, it is possible to double charge a 12ga shell with powder - and not see any physical change in the shell..not even bulging of the case.

A buddy and I did it purely as a test - to evaluate our risk/and to settle the discussion that it couldn't be done.... We were both able to double charge a 12ga Rem STS hull - using a 1oz and a 1 1/8 oz charge of shot ...and Hodgdon Clays powder.

my buddy uses a hydraulic - Spolar Gold loader / and I use a MEC 9000 HN hydraulic loader....neither loader whimpered when we did it ...none of the shells showed any deviation in the crimps ..or deforming of the hulls.

Maybe the hydraulics helped the powder compact under the wad ...not sure.
--------------
This also should not happen ! Both of our loaders auto index hulls as they go thru 6 stations...powder is dropped in #2 / then wad and shot in #3 ..and then the crimp is done in 3 stations ( 4, 5 and 6 ) at least on the MEC 9000 HN.

Any loader - when this happens / the shell can be removed as you see it for some reason ...you don't have to complete the shell. It would probably have to be human error that caused it / to put a shell with powder in it ...back into station 2 - and have a 2nd drop of powder go into the hull. The loader could jam - maybe - and a double charge might result...but any guy with experience, would have stopped it ...checked everything before he started it up again.

Just no reason for it ...and my 9000 HN produces close to 15 boxes and hour...without me breaking a sweat.../ and I reload 10,000 shells a yr easily --- when I was competing more, I loaded 30,000 or more shells a yr easily ....all for my own use - and my kids and grandkids.../ I'd never sell reloads..../ but some reloader saying - he just didn't get it stopped in time - and they dropped into the bucket...is a very poor practictioner - in my opinion.

I've been reloading for over 50 yrs ...started when I was about 10 - with both metallic and shotshells...on single stage loaders with my grandpa...and today in shotshells alone, I load 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...and about 7 calibers for handguns in metallic ...

Double charging a hull ...would be easy to do in a single stage operation / not that easy to do in a typical auto indexing progressive machine ( if the press was clean, properly lubed, and the operator knew what he or she was doing and paying attention to what they were doing ) ! and in 50+ yrs I've never done it ...other than for this test....

running out of powder in the hopper on the press....and ending up with bloopers...is a common idiot mistake .....( and its dangerous as well ...) but not as bad as a double charge...

Last edited by BigJimP; September 19, 2012 at 05:40 PM.
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Old September 19, 2012, 08:27 PM   #19
357gp
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I wouldn't even want to be next to him when he fires those shells.
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Old September 19, 2012, 08:51 PM   #20
SHR970
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To repeat
1) No
2) Hell no
3) And NEVER trust this guy with your gun and body parts.

If he knows he has two double charged shells in the stack, what about the two shells that have no powder that he forgot about?

Fire a blooper, forget to clear the wad from the barrel followed by a regular shell = bad news...wrecked gun, probable body damage.


Fire a blooper, forget to clear the wad from the barrel followed by double charge = REALLY BAD NEWS.....wrecked gun and very likely severe body damage (as in missing parts).
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