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Old September 18, 2012, 06:06 PM   #1
Willie Lowman
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ccw in school zone

I am working out of town for a few months. The place I am staying is inside a school zone. My room is probably 100 feet from the school building. IIRC there isn't supposed to be any weapons within 1000 of a school.

Does anyone know the finer points of having a firearm in a rented room near a school in Ohio? If I had my computer I'd look in the o.r.c. but all I've got is my phone.
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Old September 18, 2012, 06:27 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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As I recall Gun Free School "Zones" were declared unconstitutional, at least in regards to areas off school property. I believe the Gun Free "Zone" can now only include the school and drive-ways/parking lots, etc.

Wait for an expert.
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Old September 18, 2012, 06:28 PM   #3
Don H
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Federal law:
Quote:
(q)
(1)The Congress finds and declares that—
(A)crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;

(B)crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;

(C)firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;

(D)in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;

(E)while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;

(F)the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;

(G)this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;

(H)States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and

(I)the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.

(2)
(A)It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B)Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i)on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii)if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii)that is—
(I)not loaded; and

(II)in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv)by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v)by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi)by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii)that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

(3)
(A)Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.

(B)Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—
(i)on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii)as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

(iii)by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or

(iv)by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.

(4)Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

Depending upon which state you are in, state law may be more restrictive.
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Old September 18, 2012, 08:17 PM   #4
PeterGreg
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Do you have an Ohio CCW?
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Old September 18, 2012, 08:22 PM   #5
kinggabby
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In Oklahoma as long as you have a CCW and do not get out of the car you can carry on school property.
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Old September 19, 2012, 04:27 AM   #6
Willie Lowman
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PeterGreg, yes I do.
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Old September 19, 2012, 06:21 AM   #7
j357
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I am not an attorney, I am providing information from two places I know to look. Please form your own conclusions at your risk.

From www.handgunlaw.us for the state of Ohio

• School safety zones. A “school safety zone” includes a school, school building, school premises, school activity, and school bus. For purposes of this statute, a school includes everything up to the property boundary. The law generally forbids the carrying of a handgun in a school
safety zone unless all of the following apply:
 You do not enter a school building, premises or activity; and
 You have a concealed carry license or temporary emergency license; and
 You are not otherwise in one of the forbidden places listed above and detailed in R.C. 2923.126 (B); or
 You are a driver or passenger in a motor vehicle immediately in the process of picking up or dropping off a child, and you are not otherwise in violation of the laws governing the transportation of firearms in motor vehicles.

NOTE other places listed above consists of:
Police stations
• Sheriffs’ offices
• Highway Patrol posts. Premises controlled by the Ohio Bureau • of Criminal Identification
and Investigation.
• Correctional institutions or other detention facilities
• Airport terminals or commercial airplanes.
• Institutions for the care of mentally ill persons.
• Courthouses or buildings in which a courtroom is located.
• Universities, unless locked in a motor vehicle or in the process of being locked in a motor vehicle.
• Places of worship, unless the place of worship permits otherwise.
• Child day-care centers.
• Government facilities that are not used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or a building or structure in which a courtroom
is located.

From the Ohio Attorney General Handbook:

School safety zones
A “school safety zone” includes a school, school building, school premises, school activity, and school bus. For purposes of this statute, a school includes everything up to the property boundary.
If you are licensed to carry a concealed handgun, you may carry a handgun into a school safety zone only if you do not enter a school building, school premises, or school activity. You also must not be in one of the places listed in ORC 2923.126(B). You may be in a motor vehicle and immediately in the process of picking up or dropping off a child. You also must comply with all other laws governing the transportation of firearms in a motor vehicle.
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Old September 19, 2012, 01:19 PM   #8
Stressfire
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Quote:
Do you have an Ohio CCW?
Then you should be ok as long as you are not carrying on the premises of the school.

Double check with these guys: http://ohioccwforums.org
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Old September 19, 2012, 03:07 PM   #9
Al Norris
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The original GFSZ Act was ruled invalid and unconstitutional. The Federal Congress almost immediately rephrased and passed another GFSZ Act that has, so far, withstood all challenges.

Under the Federal law, if you have a licensed firearm (licensed by the State in which the School is located), you are clear of any wrongdoing if you are found within the 1000 ft. area. You are not permitted to actually go onto the campus (but your State law may be different - this is allowed under the federal law).

So... If you are walking/driving/passing through that 1000 ft. radius and have a State permit, you are OK. Note well, that your permit must be issued by the State in which the School is located.

This is only the federal law. Your State law may be (and in most cases, it is) different.
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Old September 19, 2012, 03:29 PM   #10
Woody55
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As Mr. Norris points out, the original law violated the Constitution. I believe it was of the very few cases in which the Supreme Court held that Congress was over exceeding it's power under the Commerce Clause. I'm not sure why the new version passes muster.

None the less, I don't intend on being the test case.

IMHO, the States can take care of this without Washington's help. Washington can worry about unimportant things like keeping our diplomats alive.
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Old September 20, 2012, 07:05 AM   #11
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IIRC, the original GFSZ Act was held unconstitutional (basically) because Congress didn't include language that tied the Act to interstate commerce. That was the basis for striking the Act, so Congress just turned around and re-enacted the GFSZA, including language tying the act to interstate commerce (& the Commerce Clause).
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Old September 20, 2012, 08:49 AM   #12
Woody55
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@Spats,

Yes, I saw the language. However, I think that the rationale that firearms are manufactured and sold in interestate commerce is - at least in this case - over reaching.

I approve of stretching the limits of Congressional power in extreme cases when it is necessary. A good example is the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The rationale was the lunch counter that was discriminating served food and customers in interstate commerce which is similar to the law in question. However, not all of the states were interested in protecting the civil rights of all of their citizens. The federal government had to do something.

In this case, the magnitude of the harm is not anywhere near as great and the states have their own laws on the subject. In fact, if memory serves, the Supreme Court case was from Texas and the guy violated the federal but not the state law because the distances were different.

So, I maintain my position that this is an example of Congress over extending itself into the realm of the not needed instead of concetrating on doing a better job of what is needed. Sorry for the political diatribe. It must be the election coming on.
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Old September 20, 2012, 09:03 AM   #13
Nathan
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Quote:
the original law violated the Constitution
So does the current one FWIW. What part of:

Quote:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Or more simply. . ."the right of the people to . . .bear arms shall NOT BE infringed," is so hard to understand for politicians?

bear - (Dictionary.com) - to carry; bring

How could they have know in 1791 that some Americans, even with dictionaries would not be able to figure out what bear means?

Keep is a similarly difficult word. . .but for another day.

Of course, there are the other difficult words of people, right, infringed, arms, etc too.
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Old September 20, 2012, 10:11 AM   #14
Don H
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Nathan, no right, including ones guaranteed by the Constitution or Bill of Rights, is absolute. If the Second Amendment were absolute, police wouldn't be allowed to disarm the "alleged" criminals they apprehend and accused murderers sitting at the defense table in court would be armed if they chose to be.

I'm not arguing that the GFSZA is Constitutional, I'm just making the point that rights aren't absolute and weren't, even at the time they were written.
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Old September 20, 2012, 04:38 PM   #15
Al Norris
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The problem that I have with "Commerce Clause" based legislation, is that both the Legislature and the Courts have bought into the fallacy that "once in commerce, always in commerce."

The inescapable logic is that once an item is bought by the consumer, it falls out of commerce. The reach of congress does not continue once the item no longer moves in commerce.

Here, the feds have legislated in an area that is wholly a State police power.

Sadly, I am in the minority. Sadder still, this logic does not sway the Courts.
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Old September 20, 2012, 05:00 PM   #16
Woody55
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@Al Norris,

You would think that it would be difficult for posession of something to be a federal crime if the power that Congress latched onto for making it was the Commerce Clause.

I think part of the problem is that you have a federal court defining federal power. Why would those federal judges ever limit or roll back federal power?
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Old September 20, 2012, 05:18 PM   #17
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It seems every federal law that deals with firearms contains the term "a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce'.

I believe that could be the reason why the ATF has failed to go after the states that have the "Made in X" laws, such as Montana, Wyoming, etc.

It's gonna open up a whole can of worms those laws hold up.
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Old September 20, 2012, 10:22 PM   #18
Al Norris
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Yes, but we also know that according to Raich, something that has never moved in interstate commerce (a purely intrastate movement), can affect interstate commerce. Hence it may be regulated.
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Old September 20, 2012, 10:57 PM   #19
Don H
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And Wickard before that.
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Old September 21, 2012, 11:35 AM   #20
maestro pistolero
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Once bear is firmly established outside the home, I'm hoping this particularly transparent and bald-faced abuse of the commerce clause will finally be vulnerable to a challenge. Whatever the scope of the commerce clause, it is doubtful that it was ever intended to obliterate a fundamental unenumerated right.

Al, I have never heard the argument "once in commerce, always in commerce." That's absurd on its face. I would love to hear Gura shred that to pieces someday.

Also, wasn't there some speculation that Justice Roberts planted a poison pill for the commerce clause in the Obamacare ruling? Does anybody know whether that may be relevant in the future with regard to gun free school zones?
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Old September 24, 2012, 12:33 PM   #21
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Reading the federal version, dropping off my kid while on the way to the range would be prohibited unless every gun is in a locked container?
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