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Old September 20, 2012, 12:13 PM   #26
Sweet Shooter
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@tahunua001... Thanks for that. Yes I've seen some old dinged up rifles that have obviously been dragged through hell backwards... some old M1 Garands come to mind. I love the way those rifles look and reek of history. I do wonder if modern woodwork is as stable as when those were made. I guess I'll find out pretty soon.

The slightly more open group with the Winchester 150gs I think is due to the bullets that Winchester use not being .311—Some are, some aren't. I measured anywhere between .309 to .311. The group dispersion is vertical and groups are still only an inch or so wide. I also weighed them and they have some issues. When I measure the 154gr Herter's PSP they are all .311 or almost .312. The CZ is a 1x9 twist so the ~150gr shouldn't be an issue. The worst groups with the Herter's are about 1.5 inches, and again dispersion is primarily vertical. I'm confident that up to 100 yards I can put the round where it needs to be, given the opportunity.

At this point I really want to concentrate on scouting/navigating and planning my trip. I have a feeling it might be crowded as an additional 500 depredation tags just went out for this particular hunt.

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Old September 20, 2012, 05:47 PM   #27
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I do most of my hunting within ten miles of the Pacific Ocean in Washington where we get a lot of rain during hunting season. My wood stocks start out flush with the recoil pads, but after about a week they have swollen to around a sixteenth of an inch around the pad, regardless of the stock finish. My Rem 700 with its "bowling pin" finish and forward pressue point begins to shoot high which is why it now wears a MacMillan stock. That said, given the range limitation of this gentleman's choice of rifle, I doubt it will matter. For those of you hunting in wet climates that may need to take a longer range shot, it can matter.
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Old September 20, 2012, 09:50 PM   #28
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They make or you can make raincoats for rifles. Oh and remember to put a "balloon" over the barrel.

I just keep the rifle under my poncho and clean it out at the end of the day.
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Old September 21, 2012, 12:04 AM   #29
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I thought I was all but ready. Now I want a poncho!
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Old September 21, 2012, 12:51 AM   #30
math teacher
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Just being in a damp climate with a lot of moisture in the air can cause a wooden stock to swell. No poncho can protect it from that though it will help. Instead of a baloon which can fall off, put a piece of black electrical tape over the bore. It won't fall off and will blow away before the bullet gets there.
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Old September 21, 2012, 06:25 AM   #31
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Quote:
Wood stocks have been used on guns for a lot longer than Tupperware has. Take a small cleaning kit and some oil wipes and make sure to clean it if it gets exposed to weather much. Walnut is used because it is pretty (not Impervious) stable. I'd be more concerned with dinging it up and scratching it due to terrain than I would the weather.
A little exposure will not harm your wood stock. Take a cleaning kit as suggested above a clean it after exposure once you return from the hunt.
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Old September 21, 2012, 04:58 PM   #32
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I thought I was all but ready. Now I want a poncho!
I spent a very cold rainy day waiting for bambi. Since then I always bring a cheap blaze orange poncho.

Mathteacher is right that high humidity is going to swell your stock up. It has never effected point of aim for any of the rifles I've used, but it certainly is a possibility.
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Old September 21, 2012, 09:12 PM   #33
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Wood stocks and wet weather..Kind of makes you wonder how the likes of Simon Kenton, Hugh Glass, or Jerimiah Johnson ever made it through one season?
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Old September 21, 2012, 10:06 PM   #34
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By getting close to their game before they pulled the trigger.
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Old September 22, 2012, 07:52 AM   #35
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If you ever get to the Mountain Man museum at Cody, Wyoming, take a look at the Jim Bridger rifle. They bought that from me.

What I recall about the rifle is that there isn't nearly as much wood in the forearm as with modern rifles, and a heckuva lot more steel in the barrel. With respect to this discussion, I imagine that moisture's effects were less than one would encounter in today's wood-stocked rifles. And, odds are that the stock was coated with either some sort of wax or with animal fat.

In today's world, with short-term exposure to bad weather, a waxed stock will most likely suffer little change in bedding pressures. Three or four days shouldn't be a problem. Were I concerned, I'd shoot a test group at the end of the hunt, double-checking for any change in point of impact.

One test is better than a gazillion Internet squabbles.
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Old September 24, 2012, 09:42 PM   #36
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Art.......According to my grandfather (long gone) They used bear grease or mink/beaver oil (animal fat) on those rifles. I asked him once about an old flintlock he had on how they were cleaned and oiled.
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:28 AM   #37
Jack O'Conner
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Your 7.62x39 rifle doesn't have the long distance capabilities of larger cased cartridges. But you'll do OK if you are in a good area, have patience, and watch your distance carefully.

I've been successful taking elk with my .308 and 30-30 rifles.

Plenty of hunters think elk are armor-plated but they're not at all. It's true that elk do not react to a good chest shot same as smaller animals. My advise is to keep shooting into the chest organs until the animal is down.

Good hunting to you.

Jack
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:18 AM   #38
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Absolutely correct.
An elk is big, but it's not armored. Archers kill them with arrows. Arrows from a 110 pound compound cam-bow will develop less energy than a 22 LR fired from a pistol. However when that small amount of energy is pushing a lubricated razor blade the penetration is enough to get through the entire chest of an elk.

The 7.62X39 with the 154 grain soft point bullets will kill anything you hit correctly with them. I would not say they are as fast at killing game as a 30-06, but your elk will fall and if you can track and follow a blood trail at all, you’ll find it within 100 yards I’ll bet.

I knew a poacher from Kooskie Idaho who used to kill them with a 22 Mag with 40 gr FMJ bullets. He had to hit them just right, but he killed every one he shot in the 7 years I knew him.

If we choose to hunt with anything, be it a bow, a hand gun, a flintlock or a 300 magnum, we need to stay within the limitations that we have. Those limitations fall into 2 groups.
#1 is the safe and reasonable limitations of our weapon.
#2 is the realistic and honest limitations of ourselves.
Taken together, those limitations provide a foundation for all ethical hunters to work within. I would call it unethical for you to attempt a 300 yard shot with your 7.62X39, but no more so than MOST hunters trying a 450 to 500 yard shot with their 300 magnum.

300 yards is a bit unreasonable for a 7.62X39, but if they are honest with themselves, a 500 yard shot for MOST hunters is too far for them to shoot with any rifle. Sure, the 300 can kill well at 3X that distance, but buying a long range rifle no more makes you a “sniper’ than buying a piano will make you into a musician. If you don’t have the skill to make a shot like that EVERY time, it’s outside your range.

If we take five 16 inch disks and place them on a hill, and tell 10 hunters to hit them all 2 time each on demand from where we say to shoot, and we place them around 450 to 550 yards away from the disks, you'll see what I am saying is true. About 20% of them can do it on demand. 80% cannot.

If you doubt me, get 10 of your hunting buddies together and try it. No practice shots, no warm up, no re-zeroing and no bench rests. Never do this at a shooting range where the shooters will know the distance. Always do it in the field so no shooter knows the range and must estimate it without aid. Just get into position and shoot, and all misses are noted. We are testing the shooters here, not the equipment.
Try it and see if I am right.

I do know some men and 4 woman that can do it every time. But I bet I know over 300-400 hunters that can’t.
How do I know this?
Because it’s a test I have used to prove my point to shooting students at the outset of my classes for over 30 years now.
Doubt me?
Go set it up and try it. Get your buddies out there and try it too, so everyone can see and every one is a witness to everyone else’s shots.
My point is simple.
Don't listen to the nay-sayers that condemn your rifle. If you are ethical, you will do fine. If you are a man that can and will turn down shots that are outside your effective range (of both yourself and your rifle) you are a true sportsman and a good hunter.

If not, it doesn't matter what you have, you are unethical and a "slob hunter".

That goes equally for archers, handgunners, spear hunters, muzzleloaders and high powered rifle shooters.

Your tool is far far less important than your mind, your abilities and your ethics.

Last edited by Wyosmith; September 27, 2012 at 10:36 AM.
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Old September 27, 2012, 11:09 AM   #39
Sweet Shooter
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@Wyosmith
I do not doubt anything you said in this reply. Thank you for your encouragement. I feel good about the 7.62 x39. In a bolt gun it just seems "right."

I scouted this hunt—it is very tough terrain and I didn't see a shot over 100 yards in the 5 or 6 miles that I covered. If it's not strewn with wood then it's all up and down like a giant washboard. I do know now that there's no way I can backpack in to hunt and have to hunt light with a smaller pack, from an outer camp.

On an original note I took the rifle apart and gave the barrel channel an extra coat of True-oil. Looks like the weather is changing and could be wet. I am going to wax the stock down before I go.

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Old September 27, 2012, 12:36 PM   #40
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As far as your stock on your rifle getting wet, You should be alright for the 2-3 days. Good Luck & Stay Safe
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Old September 27, 2012, 03:00 PM   #41
doofus47
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tape/balloons for the barrel, either has worked for me in the past.
wipe down your rifle with an oilcloth/towels at the end of each day.

If you're hunting in dark timber you probably won't have a shot more than 50yrds out, so a quick rifle like the cz will probably be ideal. A 150+grain bullet should be fine for cows at least. If you like your rifle and you're good with it, that's half the battle. If you spot an elk, then probably it is about to spot you, and you have about 5 seconds to do something.

Do yo have time before your hunt to bed your action to try to isolate it from any swelling in the wood?

good luck
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Old September 27, 2012, 04:14 PM   #42
Sweet Shooter
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doofus47
If you're hunting in dark timber you probably won't have a shot more than 50yrds out, so a quick rifle like the cz will probably be ideal. A 150+grain bullet should be fine for cows at least. If you like your rifle and you're good with it, that's half the battle. If you spot an elk, then probably it is about to spot you, and you have about 5 seconds to do something.

Do yo have time before your hunt to bed your action to try to isolate it from any swelling in the wood?

good luck
It is pretty well bedded. I didn't bother bedding the tang but I did epoxy steel pillars into it. The recoil lug and chamber and back a bit toward the mag well are very well bedded, and the barrel is fully/generously free floated. It feels like the right rifle to walk/climb with. I love the way it points—very fast. Yes I have 154gr PSP for it.
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Old September 27, 2012, 09:56 PM   #43
doofus47
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then have a good time in the woods!
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Old September 28, 2012, 10:22 AM   #44
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I've never shot past 200 yards with my AK, but it will do it, I'm sure. Based on my assumed-correct calculations using various online calculators, the 7.62x39 still will have over 1000 ft-lbs at 200 yards. I haven't checked 300 yards. I generally don't like to use hold-over with iron sights, as you can't see the target. I'm guess you have a scope. At 350 yards, I've taken a cow elk with a .30-06, and that's as far as I've shot at an animal worth eating or not.
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Old September 29, 2012, 03:14 AM   #45
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x39

I'd spar varnish the barrel channel, and keep the stock waxed.

A 7.62x39 bolt on elk. Now that's one you don't hear often. I've got such a rifle, and consider it an ideal whitetail rig. Its zeroed "on" at 100, and never hunts in places that a shot would present past that. With it, and a 135 gr reload, the biggest whitetail of my life, over 180 lbs, got very dead, heart shot at 19 paces. Yeah, I know, an elk is way bigger, like 3-4x bigger, than a whitetail.

I just loaded a bucket ful of 150 gr FNSP's in x39. My math and observations tell me it is the near equal of a .30-30 so loaded. It is in fact the same slug, at like velocity. I read lots of elk have been taken with a .30-30. Pick your shots. Pass less than ideal. Avoid the shoulder. Avoid wounding one. Think like a bowhunter might be good advice. Good luck. You kill an elk w/ your CZ I wanna see pics.
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Old October 1, 2012, 02:15 PM   #46
Sweet Shooter
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It's coming up next weekend. I did cave in and scope this CZ527. I know I said I would not do it again, but I have put a Leupold 1-4 x 20 scout scope on it. I did try a cheep Weaver Kasper first and the rifle put paid to it in less than 20 rounds. It shot okay and zeroed well then I noticed glass rattling...! The VX2 Leupold is very beautiful and so far is holding up.

Definitely will post pics, though battery life will be given to GPS longevity as a priority.

Here is another dilemma. I bought some real honest-to-gawd Federal 154gr PSP hunting ammo for this hunt/rifle and it costs a dollar a throw. That's okay, but what bugs me is that it shoots about 2.5 inches whereas the Herters 154gr PSP shoots about an inch and costs 23c per throw. I understand this accuracy will make very little difference at between 50–100 yards but should I go with the Federal's 2.5 inch group (Copper jacket) or with the Herter's 1 inch group (bi-metal jacket)?

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