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Old October 25, 2012, 10:37 PM   #1
Dwayne
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Trail Boss

Has anyone used Trail Boss smokeless powder for muzzle loader?
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Old October 25, 2012, 10:40 PM   #2
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Not yet, but talked to a few guys who highly recommend it (so long as you stay under 750fps)
Planning on buying a Taylor's Conversion cylinder in .45LC and handloading with Trail Boss.
Here's the Hodgdon link:
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgu...ss-feb2005.php
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Old October 25, 2012, 10:40 PM   #3
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Nope

Nope
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Old October 25, 2012, 10:52 PM   #4
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Yes, and it has some good points, but it is expensive to use. It is designed to fill-up the brass so you use a lot of powder for each shot.
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Old October 25, 2012, 11:12 PM   #5
Captainkirk
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Yes, but as you can see, you will fill a .45LC case with only 5.5gr:

Bullet: 200 GR. Cast LRNFP

Dia. .452"

COL: 1.600"
Trail Boss

5.5

706

8,000 PSI

6.5

855

11,000 PSI
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Old October 25, 2012, 11:49 PM   #6
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Trail Boss is only for reloading brass cartridges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne
Has anyone used Trail Boss smokeless powder for muzzle loader?
Trail Boss is a smokeless powder that should never be used in a muzzle loader, but only to load brass cartridges.
The Hodgdon/IMR reloading data center has info. on loading Trail Boss into brass cartridges only.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Last edited by arcticap; October 26, 2012 at 12:18 AM.
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Old October 26, 2012, 05:15 AM   #7
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Not if you value stuff like fingers and eyesight.
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Old October 26, 2012, 05:37 AM   #8
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Trail Boss doesn't like to be compressed. I would never consider using it in a muzzle loader.
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Old October 26, 2012, 06:09 AM   #9
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I use it in brass cartridges only, as recommended.
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:21 AM   #10
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It helps to read the entire post - I read only the part about trying out Trail Boss.
Not sure how I missed it but glad there are more alert people here. I suppose it evens out, but the containers are smaller to begin with.
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:47 AM   #11
Captainkirk
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My bad...I did not mean to infer you could use it loose without brass cartridges.
This is NOT the case as per the above post. It is NOT a substitute for black powder!!!!
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Old October 26, 2012, 09:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
I suppose it evens out, but the containers are smaller to begin with.
The containers are small but the charges are smaller. I use it for fireforming cases that have normal powder charges of upwards of 45gr but a max charge of Trail Boss is about 16gr. I actually get the same number of shots as about 3 pounds of regular pound from a 9 ounce bottle.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; October 27, 2012 at 09:01 PM.
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Old October 26, 2012, 10:37 PM   #13
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I have used it for plinking loads in .45-70 and .38 Special power level loads in .357 magnum cases. I like it as a powder.
It is, however, smokeless powder and should never be used in a muzzleloader.
It's not that muzzleloaders are too weak to handle smokeless pressure, a Ruger Old Army is essentially a modern revolver converted to cap and ball.
It's that smokeless powder needs a powerful primer to reliably establish the initial chamber pressure for proper burning. That's why cap and ball pistols will handle smokeless if they are converted to cartridges.
On the other hand, a single ember entering the touch hole of a flintlock will make a charge of black powder go boom.
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Old October 27, 2012, 06:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
It's not that muzzleloaders are too weak to handle smokeless pressure, a Ruger Old Army is essentially a modern revolver converted to cap and ball.
Yes, it is that muzzleloaders are not designed nor intended to handle smokeless powder. The ROA is an exception that doesn't apply to other black powder guns.
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Old October 27, 2012, 08:40 AM   #15
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Even the ROA isn't suitable for smokeless or nitro powders and it's not the gun's strength that's the problem, it's the fact that it ignites the powder through a tiny and long flash hole using an unsealed percussion cap.

Muzzleloaders that specifically are made for nitro powders all use sealed primers for ignition. A British company makes smokeless cap and ball revolvers and the cylinder is made to accept 209 shotgun primers instead of percussion caps.

http://westlakeengineering.com/15105.html

Last edited by B.L.E.; October 27, 2012 at 08:48 AM.
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Old October 27, 2012, 12:25 PM   #16
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I use Trail Boss in 45LC and love it, I think one of its best features is its bulk, if fills that big 45LC case enough that if you tried to double charge and were paying attention you'd see it off the bat.
I loaded some 45LC up using Clays but it was lost in the 45LC case, I worried about how easy a double charge could happen and be hard to notice.
I double check all my cases right after adding powder.

As for the first post I'm sure he was grouping all BP fire arms as muzzleloader, good that we take the time to err on the side of safety.
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Old October 27, 2012, 12:54 PM   #17
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When I use smokeless powder in my cartridge guns I use W231. It doesn't come near to filling the case but I don't charge a bunch of cases and then seat the bullets. I charge one case and then seat it. I do believe it would be possible to triple charge a case with it and not notice it if you weren't paying attention. A pound of powder sure does last a lot longer tho.
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Old October 27, 2012, 01:10 PM   #18
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I use a Dillon 550B so when I move the cases to the next station I can eyeball, without a problem.
I was also concerned using Clays it barely covered the bottom of the case I like a case that is filled a little more. Probably worried about the powder not being close to the primer using Clays. I'd have the same concern using 231 which I like also.
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Old October 27, 2012, 02:39 PM   #19
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Trail Boss is so bulky that it comes in 9 ounce containers because that's all that will fit in a standard "16 ounce" powder container, however, the price pretty much reflects the fact that you are only getting 9 ounces and not 16 ounces.
It's kind of handy because if you have your Dillon 550 set up to load .357 magnums with the powder measure calibrated to throw a magnum load of slow burning magnum powder, you can essentially leave the powder setting alone and use TB for a cowboy action or plinking load instead of resetting the powder measure to throw a correct charge of W231, Tite Group, or Clays.

I also like the fact that if you try to throw a double charge, the case will overflow and you will know something is wrong.
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Old October 28, 2012, 03:31 AM   #20
Dwayne
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Black horn 209

With 84 grains (weighed on scale) or 120 (Volumetric Units) of Black Horn 209 will push a 180 gr. HP/XTP at 2,227 FPS, what kind of pressure is being produced with this compressed powder charge? This is being shot from a modern muzzleloader.
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Old October 28, 2012, 07:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
With 84 grains (weighed on scale) or 120 (Volumetric Units) of Black Horn 209 will push a 180 gr. HP/XTP at 2,227 FPS, what kind of pressure is being produced with this compressed powder charge? This is being shot from a modern muzzleloader.
My guess is 15,000 to 20,000 psi based on actual measurements of black powder pressures done by Lymann.
They also measured around 7,000 lup (lead units of pressure) in a special pressure cap and ball revolver.

The pressures of heavy black powder loads and light smokeless loads actually overlap to some extent. A lot of target shotshell loads only develop around 8,000 to 10,000 lup with smokeless.
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Old October 28, 2012, 08:32 AM   #22
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IIRC, I believe that a modern inline ML typically maxes out in the neighborhood of 30,000 psi.
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