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Old September 17, 2012, 10:50 AM   #1
briang2ad
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Buyer Beware -Quantico Tactical.

Bought an M&P 45 on Friday from Quantico Tactical. It is what I would call a 'tactical store' which sells firearms, and NOT a gunstore per se. I would say first that it is 'store policy' not to be able to field strip a firearm in the store. Some would say that 'it serves you right' to get smoked - fair, but not necessarily always applicable. I think I got burned a little, but may turn out fine. The following is for education/experience to others near a store or chain like this.

Friday I purchased the firearm, and before the sale, told it came with 3 mags. So... I stupidly didn't check before I took it to the counter. When I got to the car, I noted it had two. I took it right back, and the salesperson would not openly admit he told me that, and gave me the "store policy is no returns on firearms". Bad enough, but when I got home and was finally able to field strip to clean, I noted that: 1. The barrel was very dirty. 2. The rails were pretty worn. 3. There was plenty of brass residue on the slide breech face - more than one would see from a test fire. 4. The date of the fired round was April 2010. Yes, I could have looked into this before I left the store, but NEVER would have thought about it to even look at it.

I called SW, and unless it had had warranty work, they really would not know even if it had been sold on retail before. So, I called the QT Gen Manager, and kindly went through all of the above. After asking him to reconsider the policy, as this weapon has evidence of at least a range session or 2, he fell back into the "store policy" mode.

I only have to get burned once on this. Buyer beware. If you see a smokin deal here, look very carefully, and look at everything in the box, and do not trust what a salesman says. Verify BEFORE checkout.

I posted this ONLY after trying all avenues. I talked to the GENERAL manager of QT, and I don't think his response is adequate.
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Old September 17, 2012, 11:02 AM   #2
dajowi
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File a complaint with the BBB or the chamber of commerce where the item was purchased. It might help.
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Old September 17, 2012, 11:09 AM   #3
RamItOne
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Yeah because the bbb is the gold standard these days (:
Know any business owners? The bbb solicits paid endorsements.

I feel your pain, I dropped a lil over 1K on a 1911 only for it to break (ambi safety and grip safety locked after 8 rounds. When I went to the store they just stated their store policy, that's fine, at least show empathy. They got around 4k out of me that year and nothing since then.
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Old September 17, 2012, 11:39 AM   #4
Robk
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First, was this a "new in the box" advertised firearm? Were you able to examine it at all? Could you rack the slide? So let me break it down.

NIB - if you feel this was a used firearm sold as new, than you could report it to the Attorney Generals office. False adverting and selling a used firearm as new are both frowned upon, the second more than the first. ATF could also be notified if you think they are selling used firearms as new. They could potentially lose their license.

If it was not new and you were able to rack the slide, most of the wear should have been noticed. At least the brass on the breech face and dirty barrel. Rail wear may have been difficult to gauge on that model, not sure, not too familar with it.

Now I diffently understand your position and do feel their policy is wrong, but a bit more information would be in order to make an informed decision as to what your course of action, if any, is left for you to pursue.
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Old September 17, 2012, 11:46 AM   #5
MLeake
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+1 Robk

If you were led to believe the gun was NIB, I would also go with

a. imform QT that if they do not make it right, you will go to state AG and ATF, then, if they don't do the right thing

b. follow through on both.
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Old September 17, 2012, 07:30 PM   #6
JJW
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From their web page, it looks as if they have several locations. Which one did you go to?
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Old September 17, 2012, 07:54 PM   #7
HKFan9
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I work in a gun shop.... Guns generally come filthy from the factory... often times we get guns that look like they have been used... but that is from the test fire... all the oil and grease they use.

If it looks over excessive then I just don't know.. but even the crappiest gun dealers generally don't do anything that can make them loose their license.

I will say I have dealt with my fair share of people who THOUGHT the gun they bought was used... because of how dirty they do come... but I always pull up our receiving records and show them the gun came in a week or two earlier.
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Old September 17, 2012, 08:27 PM   #8
ripnbst
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It is not uncommon for store employees to "range test" new firearms. Not that I think it's an acceptable practice but I think it happens in more stores than most would guess.
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Old September 17, 2012, 08:42 PM   #9
Dashunde
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Quote:
I would say first that it is 'store policy' not to be able to field strip a firearm in the store
I dont buy from any store that balks at a quick field strip. Period.
Their either selling used guns as new, simply stupid and worry about breaking them, or are commonly mis-representing thier stuff in other ways.

A really good gunstore offers to field strip the NIB fresh one from the back...
Theres a couple of them here in STL
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Old September 17, 2012, 09:08 PM   #10
dogtown tom
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Quote:
Dashunde
Quote:
Quote:
I would say first that it is 'store policy' not to be able to field strip a firearm in the store
I dont buy from any store that balks at a quick field strip. Period.
Really?
How many times do you think a gun should be field stripped by every looky loo to walk into the shop........and it remain salable?

Buy the gun, field strip it before you leave. Or ask the clerk or owner to do it for you. No gun store will balk at that.

Put yourself in the shoes of the shop owner....would you want customers dissassembling guns THAT THEY DONT OWN and causing damage?

Quote:
ripnbst It is not uncommon for store employees to "range test" new firearms...
Where does this happen? Please provide details.
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Old September 17, 2012, 09:19 PM   #11
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Really?
How many times do you think a gun should be field stripped by every looky loo to walk into the shop........and it remain salable?

Buy the gun, field strip it before you leave. Or ask the clerk or owner to do it for you. No gun store will balk at that.

Put yourself in the shoes of the shop owner....would you want customers dissassembling guns THAT THEY DONT OWN and causing damage?
The LGS nearest me, which does hundreds of sales a month and has 10 times that in foot traffic, never has an issue with me doing a field strip on a firearm, used or otherwise. Same thing with my local home run FFL dealer. That said, I never usually do it unless I am serious about buying, but they never make me hand over money beforehand. I've seen new guns with off centered sites and finish blemishes that I'd rather not have, so I always check these days.

Simple fact is most people don't do a field strip, most I've seen don't know how, so allowing the small percentage of people that want to do it to do it isn't going to cause some sort of massive wear on the gun.
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Old September 17, 2012, 09:31 PM   #12
Don H
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Would you buy a new 1911 with an "idiot mark" on it?
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Old September 17, 2012, 09:33 PM   #13
TunnelRat
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Would you buy a new 1911 with an "idiot mark" on it?
Would depend on the price and purpose. If it was something cheap that was just a range toy/truck gun and I got a discount for it, then maybe. Otherwise no, I am too anal retentive.
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Old September 17, 2012, 10:09 PM   #14
carguychris
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A few thoughts...
  • All S&Ws are test-fired at the factory. A small but significant minority are put through a more rigorous test-fire routine; accounts vary re: how many rounds are involved, but most accounts seem to agree that it's at least several dozen.
  • AFAIK S&W categorically does not clean guns after the test-fire routine.
  • Regarding the rail wear, I don't know what you consider "pretty worn", but I have never seen a new M&P that did not have some of the black finish worn off of the frame rails (or frame tabs, really) at the slide contact points. I suspect that S&W workers manually run the slides back and forth several dozen times to eliminate sticky spots that could make the gun jam right out of the box. (I know that some other manufacturers do this.)
  • Always, always, always research how many mags a gun is supposed to come with, prior to buying. Mags are easily misplaced, but gun store owners realize this, and should be expected to throw in a free spare if the pre-purchase inspection comes up short. BTW I am not aware of any M&Ps that come from the factory with 3 mags, other than the "Range & Carry Kits" that also come with a holster and an UpLula mag loader.
  • Did the gun come wrapped in brown wax paper with little blue S&W logos on it? New M&Ps are shipped slathered in gooey and somewhat smelly preservative oil. Missing paper and/or oil would be suspicious.
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Old September 17, 2012, 10:10 PM   #15
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TunnelRat
Simple fact is most people don't do a field strip, most I've seen don't know how, so allowing the small percentage of people that want to do it to do it isn't going to cause some sort of massive wear on the gun.
It only takes one "Oops!" to severely mar a new firearm.

So let's say Dfariswheel from this forum (who is a Colt 1911 pistolsmith) or Bob Hunter from this forum (another 1911 pistolsmith) wanders into a gun shop while on vacation, sees an interesting looking 1911 and asks to field strip it. What's the shop owner supposed to say? Our guys KNOW they know what they're doing, but Mr. Gunstore Owner doesn't know them from Adam. Why should he be expected to believe either one of them if he says, "Trust me, I've done this thousands of times"?
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Old September 18, 2012, 08:48 AM   #16
Stressfire
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Does that include them stripping it for you to show you the guts?

I can understand not wanting to let customers do it themselves as some may have absolutely no idea how, but if stripping is just not allowed at all, I would likely shy away.

I've gotten a "Like New" gun before. Dealer was upfront that it had been sold, then returned and exchanged, with about 100 rounds down it.

Never shot it, but the wear seemed like a lot more than 100 rounds worth (that or packing grease was never cleaned off)

Regardless, brought back and paid $10 more for the New-New one
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