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Old September 29, 2012, 11:13 AM   #1
Amsdorf
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HD VIDEO: Greatest Battle Rifle of All Time? The M1 Garand

I finally got around to making a more thorough video demonstrating the Garand from various angles, with some slow motion, etc. On this video I put forward my opinion that the M1 Garand was the greatest battle rifle of all time because of how it was used and what it accomplished. Would enjoy hearing other perspectives on this question, which is probably one of those issues that will remain a subject for discussion and consideration for a long time.

Any rate, would love to see your favorite Garand demonstration videos and anything else you might want to add to the conversation.

Here's a link to the video.


.
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Old September 29, 2012, 11:38 AM   #2
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Thread needs more M1, since it's in the wrong section



I'd say it was possibly the greatest battle rifle in the era it was issued; given it's era and the state of the art of the time

Last edited by Chris_B; September 29, 2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old September 29, 2012, 12:15 PM   #3
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Nice! I've got every bayo used on the M1. Not sure why, but I just had to have them.

: )
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Old September 29, 2012, 12:58 PM   #4
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wrong section, same old story, the last rifle you claimed was "the greatest in history" sparked a discussion that is still ongoing. perhaps it may be better to wait until one post runs it's course before you make the same post with a different rifle.


BTW the garand had far too many drawbacks to be the greatest. en blocs being the major one, both the german K43 and Russian SVT40 were superior in that they both had 10 round box mags and could be reloaded with stripper clips or topped off where as the garand required the ejection of all ammo still in the gun if you wanted to make sure it was full.

the only thing that made the garand more successful was that the US army was not afraid to issue the garand in large numbers where as the german and russian armies felt that giving a soldier a semi would cause him to spray and pray, wasting much needed ammo so they kept their several million semi auto on the side lines and in rear echelons for much of the war.
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Old September 29, 2012, 01:53 PM   #5
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Interesting perspective, I have always read that the two rifles you mention, paticularly the Russuan rifle, were rather notoriously unreliable.
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Old September 29, 2012, 02:14 PM   #6
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many of the reliability issues with the SVT 40 sprang from the fact that Russian soldiers were not trained on how to clean and maintain it. they were taught on the 91/30 bolt action which may very well be one of the most simplistic designs of WWII where as the SVT40 was one of the most complicated designs used by the USSR.

IIRC the SVT was also easier to maintain than the garand since you just had to remove the handguard to access the gas piston instead of dang near taking half the rifle apart.

the K43 however was a fine weapon with the only real gripe I'm aware of being the accuracy. the K43 was originally indended to be a sniper rifle so very little thought was put into sights and instead they were all fitted with side mounted quick-detach rails for scopes but since the K98 was more accurate many snipers still preferred it and all of the GIs didn't perform well with the sights.

the SVT used the same sight arrangement as the 91/30 so there was no adjustment for russian soldiers but both rifles were made abnormally long by modern semi auto standards which made them heavy, not that the shorter M1 was not also heavy.
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Old September 29, 2012, 02:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
BTW the garand had far too many drawbacks to be the greatest. en blocs being the major one, both the german K43 and Russian SVT40 were superior in that they both had 10 round box mags and could be reloaded with stripper clips or topped off where as the garand required the ejection of all ammo still in the gun if you wanted to make sure it was full.

the only thing that made the garand more successful was that the US army was not afraid to issue the garand in large numbers where as the german and russian armies felt that giving a soldier a semi would cause him to spray and pray, wasting much needed ammo so they kept their several million semi auto on the side lines and in rear echelons for much of the war.
Hi.

The M1 clip can be reloaded while in the magazine. Youtube will show how. While the detachable box magazine better still, the integral mag of the M1 isn't as limiting as one might think. On the one hand, ejecting a partially loaded clip is easy. On the other, a unit of fire was not the huge number of rounds that might be envisaged. A full cartridge belt was plenty in most cases.

I can't argue or defend the want of two rounds in an 8 vs 10 debate as bigger is obviously better, although I will say that the SVT and the K43 weren't available in 1941, while the M1 was. Using the criteria of just the detachable box, the BAR was superior to all three- double the capacity, with a detachable box

The M1 wasn't as universally issued as may be thought either. The 1903 was widely issued well into WWII by US forces. While the M1 has drawbacks, I feel it's over-simplistic to take the example of the M1 rifle and cast doubt on it being quite a good battle rifle just because it had lots of examples made and it had no detachable magazine. As I posted earlier, given it's era and the state of the art as it existed at the time, it may be the best of that era. Troops cleaning things correctly, etc, while being understandable, certainly do impact a rifle's real world performance, as do the materials used, the inter-changeability of parts, and durability.

Anyway. This thread should be moved
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Old September 29, 2012, 02:43 PM   #8
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The only flaw in the M1 Garand was the noise made when the clip was ejected. Our troups learned to throw an empty clip before his rifle was out of bullets,making the enemy think the rifle was out of shells.
This saved many of our troups, and left a lot of dead enemy troups laying dead on the battlefield. Another vote for the Garand being the best of the
battlefield rifles.
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Old September 29, 2012, 02:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
I can't argue or defend the want of two rounds in an 8 vs 10 debate as bigger is obviously better, although I will say that the SVT and the K43 weren't available in 1941, while the M1 was. Using the criteria of just the detachable box, the BAR was superior to all three- double the capacity, with a detachable box
the BAR was superior however it was used as a light machine gun/fire support role, not as a battle rifle and just the fact that it was fully automatic puts it in a separate class altogether from the rest of rifles discussed.

as for the discussions of M1 not being widely fielded, um...yes it was. the marine corps used the 1903 up until guadalcanal and once they started pilfering Army supply stores and got their hands on a number of M1s there was an overwhelming demand for them. by the end of the war in the pacific a staggering amount of marines were using M1s. in europe and africa however, where our troops were not fighting a jungle war, the army was able to get away with issuing the longer springfields, BARs and other weapons that were not suitable in the pacific theatre.
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Old September 29, 2012, 03:35 PM   #10
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Respectfully, I did not say that the M1 was "not widely fielded", Tahuna.

I posted, quote: "The M1 wasn't as universally issued as may be thought either." I in no way stated that it was not "widely fielded". It was. But so was the 1903, overall. Not in for example 1945, true, but if we start looking at only specific years of conflict, then I can simply pick a year in which the SVT40 and K43 didn't exist and/or were not the standard arm

The BAR was not adopted as a main battle rifle and it was capable of fully automatic fire, but I quantified my use of that rifle as an example, by saying that if we simply look at magazine capacity, the BAR had more. Quote: "Using the criteria of just the detachable box" You have missed my point. The point was that there's more to being a standout than simply mag capacity. Taken to an extreme, then the M1 carbine with a 30 round detachable mag would have made a fine main battle rifle, and please understand that I know it was not used in that manner, but again, if that's the criteria, it would have been superior
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Old September 29, 2012, 03:40 PM   #11
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If a mod could move this to the semi-auto rifle forum, I would appreciate it.
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Old September 30, 2012, 11:33 AM   #12
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;) LOL

If a mod could move this to the semi-auto rifle forum, I would appreciate it.

You put it here.

......

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Old September 30, 2012, 12:42 PM   #13
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Yea we went through this with the LE.

And yest it belongs elsewhere.

I don't quibble on action type. Its whatever who has what in the period.

If you have a spear and the other guy has a stick you win (most of the time). All this parsing and nuance is nonsense. Not sure if it was Patton or not, but "its the firstest with the mostest".

M1 was the best battle rifle of WWII. Limited by the fact it was chambered in 30-06 and not the original caliber and they did not think outside the box and adapted a clip/ magazine ala the LE. Still outshone what was there, including the LE.

All time, AK47. Best guess is 100 million+ produced and successfully used even to this day. Bad ergonomic and short range, but does exactly what it was intended to do.

Like the little know fact that the M1917 was the major issue rifle of WWI for the troops, the 1903 and its varients served on.

I have picture os Marines on Bogainville with the 1903, so they did not totally shifted after Guadalcanal either. I suspect some preferred the 1903 and kept it through the war (and for some good reasons)

Also pictures of GIs in Italy with half of them having 1903s.

The clip thing is an urban myth.

The M1 was ready before WWII and was being the issued arm with front line combat troops getting it first (ergo huge numbers of 1903s and some 1917 serving through the war in other duties as well as the front.

None of the other semi autos were ready to go, though the Germans did get going in 44 and used (K43, have to look that one up as there were two issues).

It was issued to Eastern Front troops as more effective and needed for the mass human attacks the Russians employed there.

And like all of it, the troops got what they could and used a mix as there was no single solution to the need (urban, jungle, open, woods)

Today if the miligary had any sense they would gow ith a changeoul barrel length and do the same. Standard mix pakcage with some 14 inch, some 16 18 inche and a few 20 inch and allow the missiosn to shfit to a bias of more of 14 if all urban, more 20 if open coutnry.

Ok, per the LE I am out of here as it will go on and on and no one will convince anyone else.
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Old September 30, 2012, 01:04 PM   #14
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Manhands

Your powers of perception continue to amaze me

LOL
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Old September 30, 2012, 01:59 PM   #15
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;) LOL

Takes no effort Paul. Your easy,,LOL.



Cheers
..MJ..
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Old October 6, 2012, 05:42 AM   #16
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You're, not "Your"

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Old October 6, 2012, 01:00 PM   #17
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;)

Correct, thank you. You're easy. LOL

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Old October 6, 2012, 01:01 PM   #18
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And thanks for not using commas incorrectly.

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Old October 6, 2012, 02:36 PM   #19
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Greatest

Despite my fondness for the Garand, you'd have to give some consideration to the Brown Bess for the title given the range of its use across both time and place.
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Old October 6, 2012, 03:40 PM   #20
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"The only flaw in the M1 Garand was the noise made when the clip was ejected. Our troups learned to throw an empty clip before his rifle was out of bullets,making the enemy think the rifle was out of shells.
This saved many of our troups, and left a lot of dead enemy troups laying dead on the battlefield. Another vote for the Garand being the best of the
battlefield rifles. "


This is a complete myth.
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