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Old September 16, 2012, 03:32 PM   #1
zxkeller
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H&K P7M8 still available?

Have heard the H&K P7 has been discontinued? Anyone know why? I have heard
but good things about this gun for concealed carry.I would like to buy a new one.
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Old September 16, 2012, 03:59 PM   #2
Creeper
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Welcome to the Asylum...

Yes... not made for several years now. "Used NIB" you will pay $1500 and up. I carried one for over 10 years. They are all steel and weigh quite a bit for a 4" barreled gun.
They stopped making them because, they were expensive to make, expensive to sell and had a limited range of customers. Like the original SIG P210... either you are a fanatic, or you think they are a lot of money for a 9mm handgun.

If you've never shot one, they are a unique manual of arms and should be the only gun you carry... not switched around with other systems.

No one makes a handgun presently with all the features of the P7 design: Low bore center, squeeze cocking striker fired-short single action trigger, gas retarded blowback operation.
I'm not going to tell you not to, 'cause I loved my P7M8, but you'll probably be better off with a modern, "low bore center" handgun like a Steyr M8-A1 or Caracal. The low bore center of the P7 is, arguably, it's best feature.

Cheers,
C
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Old September 16, 2012, 06:08 PM   #3
ClydeFrog
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HK USA....

The HK P7m8 & P7m13(the larger 13rd 9x19mm) have been out of US sales for about 10 years. 2000-2002.
The HK P2000 & P30 pistols have replaced it.
A .380acp model was also produced but only in Europe/overseas.

A few P7 9x19mm pistols, LNIB or factory new(unused) can be found at places like GunsAmerica.com but they retail around $900-2000.00 USD.

Clyde
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Old September 16, 2012, 07:54 PM   #4
PH/CIB
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My HKP7M8 is lazer accurate, great sights, great trigger, thin and compact, extremely safe with squeeze cocker design, fixed barrel.

On the downside there are handguns the same size that carry twice as many rounds and weigh much less and cost one half to one third as much, also even though my newer HKP7M8 has the heat shield in the top of the trigger guard, it does get very hot after four or five magazines in a row at the range, and the biggest downside of all this gun and it's magazines were never cheap and now that it is no longer made and older models are no longer being sold at CDNN, you will be looking at paying a premium on GunBroker. Still worthwhile to get, it is a cool handgun.

A couple of other single stack 9mm favorites of mine are the HKP9S, extremely accurate and a trigger that breaks like glass, and the Walther P5 Compact with left side eject.
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Old September 16, 2012, 08:46 PM   #5
Creeper
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H&K was "out of the box" (and sometimes still is) for several years.

The VP70Z/M had one of the worst triggers, in one of the most advanced handguns ever made... the first polymer framed handgun, which predated Glock by over 10 years.

The P9, in addition to using a roller locking mechanism similar to the G3 rifle has, and in particular the P9S Target/Match model, on of the most beautifully crisp and light single action trigger pulls ever in a production gun.

The original P7 PSP, P7K3, M8, M10 and M13 were equipped with all of H&Ks "eggs in one basket" so to speak. The prototype .45ACP P7M7, of which there were, arguably, only 6-7 made, had a unique hydraulic slide buffer. P7 lovers would, literally, kill for one of these guns.
The P7K3 had the bonus of caliber interchangeability in .22, .32ACP and .380ACP and a (simpler than the M7) hydraulic slide buffer in place of the gas-retarding piston of the larger, production guns.
  • All 9mm and .40 Auto P7 models have a gas delayed blowback, fluted chamber, fixed-barrel operating system that was self-compensating for variations in breach pressure between target, standard and +p ammunition. This system was so effective that, upon firing, the gun would eject empty cases even if you removed the extractor from the gun.
  • At the time, the P7 had the lowest bore center relative to hand position of any gun made. Very quick to get back on target.
  • A totally unique safety system in that if the cocking shell, pivoting from the bottom of the frontstrap, was not depressed, the gun could not fire.
  • The cocking shell required approximately 14 lbs to depress, yet once depressed, only 2 lbs of pressure required to hold it in it's cocked position.
  • The cocking shell, upon being depressed, set the striker in a firing position, and only required a short, light and smooth pull of the trigger to fire the gun. Upon firing, as long as the cocking shell remained depressed, the gun would reset the striker to the firing position. Once the cocking shell was released, the striker was "de-cocked" and the gun rendered safe.
  • An interesting fact. You could fire the gun by pulling the trigger first... then pulling the cocking shell. As the cocking shell made a little "clicking noise" as it went over center, many thought this was a design feature to allow someone to shoot without making any noise first... and giving away ones position. I think this was simply a unintended function of the design.
  • The barrel was hammer forged, polygonal rifled and had no taper, runout or variation to .0001".
  • P7M models had a ambidextrous, press down to operate magazine release.
  • When you changed the magazine on a P7 with the slide locked back, depressing the cocking shell would not only set the striker to a firing position, but release the slide as well! One of the fastest natural magazine changes on the planet, and one of the many reasons why gunsmith Bruce Grey worked diligently to create P7M8 and M13 competition guns.
I've owned a VP70Z, a P9s 45 Target, a blue K3, a rare factory nickel M8 and a less rare nickel M13. I never bought a M10 because H&K added weight and height to the slide in an effort to control slide speeds. The hydraulic buffer of the M7 was too costly (according to H&K pundits). This was, arguably, the worst of the P7 series and quite unpopular at the time. Now of course, because even though it's a bit of a pig, it's still a P7, so it's stature as a collector piece is secure.

I sold my entire H&K collection when I developed colon cancer... I should be sad, but as I sold them all for 2-3 times what I paid for them, and I'm still alive, I'm not that sad.

Cheers,
C
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Last edited by Creeper; September 17, 2012 at 01:42 AM.
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Old September 16, 2012, 09:12 PM   #6
ClydeFrog
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HK P7m10....

I nearly forgot about the rare "10" version or the .40S&W caliber P7(10mm).
I think these .40 type P7s were rolled out to work with the 10mm & .40S&W format MP5s(MP10s) that used the larger round.
The FBI SWAT & HRT(Hostage Rescue Team) were the only major US police units to really push for a 10mm MP5 format.
Author Tom Clancy wrote often about the 10mm's use in HK weapons in many of his 1990s era novels.

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Old September 16, 2012, 09:45 PM   #7
Creeper
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Quote:
I nearly forgot about the rare "10" version or the .40S&W caliber P7(10mm).
There was no actual "10mm Auto" P7 to my knowledge. The P7M10 was a modified P7M13 that held 10 rounds of the then new .40 S&W.

I worked at Shooters World in Phoenix in the early 90s when the P7M10 came out. The first one we got, which we had for less than a day, had a "standard sized" slide. H&K made, according to some, less than 300 of these guns... personally, I think far fewer than that... and I also think we never should have received the one we did.
The owner took the gun out of inventory 2 hours after it hit the display case... and we never saw it again.
If you ever see a P7M10 "slim slide"... just buy it, and don't ask questions. Know what I mean?

The first "fat slide" P7M10 we got 2 weeks later... was a top heavy, ugly, clunky to shoot POS. H&K jumped the shark with that gun... they should have developed a dedicated recoil system for the gun instead of the stop-gap, brick they went with.
All IMO of course... but I know a whole lot of P7M10 owners, and without exception, the guns are investment safe queens.
As the P7 is history, it's all kinda moot now. I just wish they would have brought the P7M7 to market with the expensive hydro buffer... even at an early 90's price of (the H&K estimated) $1400, I think it would have done OK.

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Old September 17, 2012, 12:28 AM   #8
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Geez, Creeper, What a great post!

I have owned those guns for years and I learned more from your post about those discontinued HK handguns than from years of shooting them.

While I enjoy the new guns, there is something about the old discontinued HK and Walther, Luger, Sig like the old P210 models, Colt and Smith and Wesson handguns, just to name a few, that makes the newer guns seem a little rough around the edges or at least without any character.

Glad you beat the colon cancer and are still alive and kicking!
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Old September 17, 2012, 12:50 AM   #9
Creeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PH/CIB
Geez, Creeper, What a great post!
I have owned those guns for years and I learned more from your post about those discontinued HK handguns than from years of shooting them.
Glad you enjoyed it... As you do, I appreciate the unique and sometimes cutting edge designs of the guns from the 60s - early 80s.
My "perfect European handgun collection" always begins with a first series CZ75, SIG Model 49, SIG P210-6, H&K P9S Target, H&K P7M8, Walther P5, Walther P88 and of course, a Belgian Browning Mk.III Hi Power. With the exception of the SIG 49 which I learned to appreciate later in life... these are the guns of my younger, more glorious days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PH/CIB
Glad you beat the colon cancer and are still alive and kicking!
Not beat yet I'm afraid... but I'm still dancing. Thanks for the kindness though.

Cheers and g'night,
C
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Old September 17, 2012, 06:48 AM   #10
mete
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When the 40S&W came out many less than bright companies just assumed you could take a 9mm and replace the barrel to make a .40. They didn't seem to understand that the .40 was a more powerul cartridge and some other changes had to be made .For the most part it needed about 3 ozs more weight in the slide .
H&K first developed a slim slide but felt it wouldn't last forever so made the standard heavier slide .I didn't know the slim slide ever reached the market.

Well I've got the heavier one and love it so I guess I'll keep it !
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Old September 17, 2012, 07:18 AM   #11
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Creeper, I know little about the p7 series of guns but I remember reading that the m series also had a heat shield of some kind. Not sure if it was for frame protection or slide protection. I have seen some p7's with blued slides that looked as if they had gotten very hot and changed the color.
What do you know about this?
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Old September 17, 2012, 08:38 AM   #12
Mike Irwin
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This is posted in the wrong forum.

Please read this, which you should have read when you registered: http://thefiringline.com/forums/anno...t.php?f=1&a=97

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