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Old September 24, 2012, 08:28 PM   #1
jtmckinney
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Hawes SA Revolver Navy Model 36 Cal

A long time friend and co-worker has a revolver he would like to sell or trade, it is marked on the barrel left side "Hawes Firearms Co. Las Angeles Calif" and on right side "36 Cal Navy Model made in italy" I have done some internet searching and I think it has all the proof marks.

Serial No. is 12xx. It has some surface rust, appears to have been handled at least some but fired very little. It also appears to also be a smooth bore. I do not see any evidence of any riffling in the barrel.

I have never has a "Cap And Ball" revolver before but have thought about getting one and would like to make a fair off for this firearm.

Any info as to the year of manufacture, value, or anything else please let me know.

I can post pictures in a couple of days but if anyone can chime in, in the meantime please do.

Thank You!
James
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Last edited by jtmckinney; September 24, 2012 at 08:54 PM.
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Old September 24, 2012, 09:09 PM   #2
Chuckusaret
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First I would like to say that I have never seen a Hawes before but I did a little research but found no mention of it in my catalogs but did find it in my current 33rd edition of The Blue Book of Gun Values. They have a short blurb on the Hawes Firearms as follows; They were previously manufactured by J.P. Sauer in Eckernforde, Germany and imported by Hawes Firearms in Van Nuys, Ca. Hawes was discontinued in the early 1960's. There is no listing of the different models but they give a generalized price range as follows: Center fire single actions in the $225 to $400 range, center fire double actions are $175 to $325, while the .22 rim fire models are valued between $100 to $200..
Note these values are based on the condition of the gun from poor to excellent condition.
Hope this is of some help........
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Old September 24, 2012, 09:26 PM   #3
FloridaVeteran
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Different caliber, but here is a big clue, a .44 Hawes with similar markings, pretty nifty looking, assuming the old finish was intentional. It is at $101 on Gunbroker with no reserve. How does the condition of your friend's gun compare"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=307534441

And here's a pair of unfired .36 cal ones, at what appears to me to be an unrealistic price unless they were made in Germany. Hawes had a lot of stuff from Germany but I don't know if any of it was percussion.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=307807209

In the try-to-be-positive sense, if the one you're looking at will fire OK and is dirt-cheap and if you have a club with BP shooters and if you can buy a small quantity of ball ammo and pay the other shooters more than cost for the remaining supplies (powder, wads, caps) for a nominal number of rounds to fire, you can decide whether you are going to like BP before laying out a lot of money for the equipment and supplies you'd need.

This past year I bought a 1970s Italian .44 Magnum that was in similar condition to what you described, minus a base pin, for $50. The base pin will cost me $30 delivered. I figure the gun then will be worth just about the $80 I have in it.

There are a few posters here who know way more than I do about these, but I suspect they are going to tell you that this is not a Rembrandt at a garage sale. Didn't want you to feel too lonesome while waiting for an expert response, which mine is not.

If your friend will let you take the gun apart, look for either Uberti, Perdersoli or Pietta marked anywhere, including under the grips. If you see one of those, you might have a decent chance of finding replacement parts for the same model marketed under their own brand. Most good gunsmiths should be able to keep it running, but you have to question the total investment you want to risk having in this piece.

Last edited by FloridaVeteran; September 24, 2012 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Add info re supplies and about real mfgr.
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Old September 24, 2012, 10:30 PM   #4
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Thanks to all that replied so far. Rangers lost and I am going to bed.

Present info is kind of what I thought and will pick this up tomorrow.

Once again Thanks!
James
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Old September 25, 2012, 05:39 AM   #5
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Hawes were made by ASP, Rigarmi and a relatively unknown maker that used COM as a manufacturers mark. ASP (Armi san Paulo) would be a good one. Rigarmi would be good but good luck on finding parts if you ever need them. I know nothing about COM quality but parts would be harder to find than Rigarmi. There should be a logo somewhere, under the loading lever maybe but it won't be under the grips. There will also be a date code on the right side of the frame. Either Roman numerals or two letters in a box.
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Old September 25, 2012, 06:44 AM   #6
jtmckinney
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I will try to remember to pick up batteries for my camera today and get some pictures up tonight.

The gun appears to be very well made with a tight action, lockup and feel. The fit of the grips to the frame is not very good but otherwise the metal parts fit together very well.

I have a St. Louis Hawkins 50 cal I was playing with a lot 10-12 years ago and deer hunting with so I know at least a little about black powder shooting. I am thinking this cap and ball revolver is more to do than a muzzle loader rifle but thats where the fun is.

Would this gun being a smooth bore be correct? There are Roman Numerals XXV in the right side frame. If this is a date code what year would that mean? I doute the gun was made in 1925, I am thinking more 1950's or 1960's.

Thanks!
James
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Old September 25, 2012, 06:45 PM   #7
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Got Pictures

Please see attached pictures.

Info I got today is the original owner (if he bought it new and the thinking is he did) has been dead for approx 30 years and was the last one to shoot it. He was also not a shooter. He bought this when he was in the Navy in the 1950's.

If there is a specific view needed please let me know.

Thanks!
James
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Old September 25, 2012, 06:51 PM   #8
RJay
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Being a smooth bore is not correct, as far as I know none were ever made that way.
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Old September 25, 2012, 06:53 PM   #9
PetahW
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I would remove the barrel & give the bore a vicious scrubbing with a bronze brush & solvent.

IIRC, some of those replicas had shallow rifling (I've never heard of or seen a smoothbore C&B revolver), and the bbl might simply be leaded, giving the appearance of a smoothbore.

Your gun carries the Date Code stamp for 1969.

The "LGG" stamp is most likely a repro cartouche for a Colt inspector from 1896-1904, L. G. Gilmore.



I'd wouldn't get too strenuous with the loads, given that brass frame (ILO steel) - OK for Holy Black, not for any CF conversion cylinder.


.

Last edited by PetahW; September 25, 2012 at 07:01 PM.
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Old September 25, 2012, 06:54 PM   #10
jtmckinney
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More Pics

Please see attached.

These include proof marks.

Thamks!
James
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Old September 25, 2012, 07:11 PM   #11
Hawg
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69 is the correct year but that's DGG not LGG and is the logo for Armi san Paulo, now Euroarms. I seriously doubt its a smooth bore unless somebody bored the rifling out. it didn't come that way. The lack of a cylinder scene and the brass frame makes it a pretty good rendition of a Schneider & Glassic.
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Old September 25, 2012, 07:11 PM   #12
jtmckinney
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PetahW you are correct there is rifling in the barrel. When I got batteries for my camera I also got batteries for my pen light. Rifling hard to see at the end of the barrel but more visable an inch and more down.

If 1969 is correct for the manufacture date that is ok, it makes no real difference and I am not going to argue with a date stamp.

I have a Heritage Rough Rider I don't shoot any more I may swap for it.

Thanks guys, Have a great evening!
James
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:48 PM   #13
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Made the trade today. Going to take it apart this weekend & give it a good cleaning. I am not having any luck finding a manual, if anyone could help me out with this I would appreciate it.

Hawg, I did some reading on "Schneider & Glassic". I guess I have a replica of a copy of the "Colt 1851 Navy". I guess thats cool, I know I am enjoying this firearm so far.

Nothing posted here tells me that I need to preserve the patina this gun has. If someone feel differently please let me know. For sure the crud and rust have to go I am more talking about the brass. If there is a product that would clean the brass but still leave an antique brass look please recommend one.

Thanks everyone!
James
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Old September 26, 2012, 07:02 PM   #14
Hawg
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I wouldn't worry about the patina if you like shiny brass. I prefer mellow but to each his own. You need to keep powder charges down to around 18 grains with the brass frame.
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Old September 26, 2012, 10:39 PM   #15
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JTM - if you're looking for votes, I vote that you leave the brass the way it is. To me, it looks more authentic that way, especially with the rest of the metal, rust excepted. Heck, I regretted polishing the brass receiver on my 1866 replica Navy Arms lever-action, but had plenty of time to let it get back to tarnished.

I don't know, and haven't read, if cowboys polished the brass on their guns in the 1800s, but I wouldn't think there was any advantage to doing so. If soldiers did, it probably was only because it was required.

Nice-looking gun, BTW. Hope you have a lot of fun with it. In the good-humor vein, you might get enough lead out of the barrel to make a bullet, or else you could try being a pioneer with black-powder snake-shot.
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Old September 27, 2012, 06:46 AM   #16
jtmckinney
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Thanks for the opinions. I don't want a bright finish either but do want it to look clean. I have no plans to do any blueing for the steel but the rust has to go.

For the brass I may try some light brushing with some tooth polish and see what that gives me. If someone has a better product or method to recommend please chime in.

On a side note I am very pleased with the trigger. I seems to have a set trigger where you pull it a little and it clicks into place, all play disappears and it breaks from there very cleanly.

I got my questions answered here, Thanks! Now I need to get some balls or bullits for it and give it a try. I very recently got into casting so I will also get some molds. I will keep the loading down for this gun. If I want to hot-rod a firearm I mave a couple Blackhawks for that.

Have a great day!
James
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