Regarding primers... & Rem 230 gr FMJ bullets

smokiniron · September 17, 2012, 12:19 PM

For 800 cps loads (meaning non-maximum charges) are Federal 150 and Winchester WSF primers interchangeable? I have some Remington 230 gr FMJRN bullets, but can't fund a load specific to this bullet in my reloading materials. The Federal 150 and WSF primers show up on several similar bullets (same weight and FMJRN style). BUT, the powder charges are often very different between bullet brands - even with the same powder.

What to do?

smokiniron · September 17, 2012, 07:27 PM

Buhler....?

tkglazie · September 17, 2012, 07:51 PM

Sorry, I dont understand the question. If I had to guess, you are talking about Winchester WSP primers, which are small pistol primers. Fed 150 are large pistol primers.

.45 cases come in two flavors, one for use with small pistol primers (less common) and one for large pistol primers (more common).

Regarding the load data you are looking for, a 230gr FMJRN is a 230gr FMJRN, regardless of manufacturer. Weight matters, material matters (jacketed, plated, lead) and profile matters. Manufacturer does not.

Components are never interchangeable unless you have proven them to be yourself. If you have worked up a load using one particular primer and bullet and change any of these components you will need to back the load off to the starting charge and work it back up again. If you find the exact same recipe works for 2 different manufacturers bullets, then you can note that in your load book and use either bullet interchangeably in the future. For primers, this is rarely the case. Especially going between small and large primers. It is reported that on average you will see a 30fps different between SP and LP primers for .45 loads in the midpower range. If you have a supply of both types of cases you will most likely end up with different recipes for each.

smokiniron · September 18, 2012, 12:28 AM

Code:

Sorry, I dont understand the question.

Apologies tkglazie... It was a clumsily-worded question.

I have a mixed bag of .45 brass. Most is Winchester or Top Brass. I have a selection of powders for reloading, all purchased with specific loads in mind. BUT, I somehow ended up with 100 ea. of Remington 230 gr FMJRN and am looking for reloading advice (since I'm obviously new to pistol reloading). I have WLP, WSP, and Federal 150 primers.
Several posters were kind enough to suggest a few loads appropriate to my bullets. But, I neglected to inquire as to the appropriate primers. I'm not big on guessing at reload data, so I'm scratching around for some 'prior knowledge' from the forum. I thought I had some data for this bullet, but no dice, and I can't locate anything with which I'm comfortable.

I'm really just trying to determine from others experience, if, for a FMJRN load, whether or not a large pistol primer from Winchester will change the load dynamics compared to a Federal 150 large pistol primer.

Thanks to all in advance for any additional help on this question.

sidewindr · September 18, 2012, 12:41 AM

For the .45acp you'll need WLP for loading, since you don't have blazer or Federal brass it is unlikely they are the newer small pockets.
I've not noticed any loading difference between the two primers,but start a few low to make sure.If starting from scratch, do the loadup with both at the same time and see if one works better than the other.

I wonder how many got the Ferris Beuhler (spelling??) joke?

smokiniron · September 18, 2012, 01:15 AM

Thanks, sidewindr... I guess I'm dating myself with the Ferris reference... but it STILL comes up on tv!
Actually, I have some Blazer and Federal brass deprimed, sized, and tumbled. So, the small WSP stash I have has a place on the kitchen counter, so to speak. I don't own a chronograph, so I'm a little handicapped with load workups. I'm just looking for some 800-850 fps max loads. I'm mostly focusing on Hornady FMJ & HP. But I don't want to leave this bag of Remmys laying around unused!

tkglazie · September 18, 2012, 10:38 AM

Since you only have 100 to use up, I think your best bet is to just pick or the other of the LP primers and have at it. The 230gr FMJRN is easily one of the easiest and most forgiving bullets you can load with. With 100 on hand, you should easily be able to work up the accurate GI ball load you are looking for with the first 50 and have a box on hand.

For reference, I load this bullet over 5.1gr HP38/W231 at 1.255" and see about 750fps out of my SR1911. Not quite GI level velocities, but it is very accurate in my gun and feeds reliably.

smokiniron · September 18, 2012, 07:19 PM

thglazie.... many thanks!

sidewindr · September 18, 2012, 07:56 PM

Win 231/HP-38 will be a good trial load, you'll like it.

September 17, 2012, 12:19 PM	#1
smokiniron Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2012 Location: Utah Posts: 214	Regarding primers... & Rem 230 gr FMJ bullets For 800 cps loads (meaning non-maximum charges) are Federal 150 and Winchester WSF primers interchangeable? I have some Remington 230 gr FMJRN bullets, but can't fund a load specific to this bullet in my reloading materials. The Federal 150 and WSF primers show up on several similar bullets (same weight and FMJRN style). BUT, the powder charges are often very different between bullet brands - even with the same powder. What to do? __________________ Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With... and a few defensive firearms, too!

September 17, 2012, 07:27 PM	#2
smokiniron Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2012 Location: Utah Posts: 214	Buhler...? Buhler...?? Buhler....? __________________ Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With... and a few defensive firearms, too!

September 18, 2012, 12:28 AM	#4
smokiniron Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2012 Location: Utah Posts: 214	Code: Sorry, I dont understand the question. Apologies tkglazie... It was a clumsily-worded question. I have a mixed bag of .45 brass. Most is Winchester or Top Brass. I have a selection of powders for reloading, all purchased with specific loads in mind. BUT, I somehow ended up with 100 ea. of Remington 230 gr FMJRN and am looking for reloading advice (since I'm obviously new to pistol reloading). I have WLP, WSP, and Federal 150 primers. Several posters were kind enough to suggest a few loads appropriate to my bullets. But, I neglected to inquire as to the appropriate primers. I'm not big on guessing at reload data, so I'm scratching around for some 'prior knowledge' from the forum. I thought I had some data for this bullet, but no dice, and I can't locate anything with which I'm comfortable. I'm really just trying to determine from others experience, if, for a FMJRN load, whether or not a large pistol primer from Winchester will change the load dynamics compared to a Federal 150 large pistol primer. Thanks to all in advance for any additional help on this question. __________________ Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With... and a few defensive firearms, too!

September 18, 2012, 01:15 AM	#6
smokiniron Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2012 Location: Utah Posts: 214	Thanks, sidewindr... I guess I'm dating myself with the Ferris reference... but it STILL comes up on tv! Actually, I have some Blazer and Federal brass deprimed, sized, and tumbled. So, the small WSP stash I have has a place on the kitchen counter, so to speak. I don't own a chronograph, so I'm a little handicapped with load workups. I'm just looking for some 800-850 fps max loads. I'm mostly focusing on Hornady FMJ & HP. But I don't want to leave this bag of Remmys laying around unused! __________________ Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With... and a few defensive firearms, too!

September 18, 2012, 07:19 PM	#8
smokiniron Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2012 Location: Utah Posts: 214	thglazie.... many thanks! __________________ Lots of Cast Iron to Cook With... and a few defensive firearms, too!

September 17, 2012, 07:51 PM	#3
tkglazie Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Posts: 558	Sorry, I dont understand the question. If I had to guess, you are talking about Winchester WSP primers, which are small pistol primers. Fed 150 are large pistol primers. .45 cases come in two flavors, one for use with small pistol primers (less common) and one for large pistol primers (more common). Regarding the load data you are looking for, a 230gr FMJRN is a 230gr FMJRN, regardless of manufacturer. Weight matters, material matters (jacketed, plated, lead) and profile matters. Manufacturer does not. Components are never interchangeable unless you have proven them to be yourself. If you have worked up a load using one particular primer and bullet and change any of these components you will need to back the load off to the starting charge and work it back up again. If you find the exact same recipe works for 2 different manufacturers bullets, then you can note that in your load book and use either bullet interchangeably in the future. For primers, this is rarely the case. Especially going between small and large primers. It is reported that on average you will see a 30fps different between SP and LP primers for .45 loads in the midpower range. If you have a supply of both types of cases you will most likely end up with different recipes for each.

September 18, 2012, 12:41 AM	#5
sidewindr Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2011 Location: somewhere out there Posts: 101	For the .45acp you'll need WLP for loading, since you don't have blazer or Federal brass it is unlikely they are the newer small pockets. I've not noticed any loading difference between the two primers,but start a few low to make sure.If starting from scratch, do the loadup with both at the same time and see if one works better than the other. I wonder how many got the Ferris Beuhler (spelling??) joke?

September 18, 2012, 10:38 AM	#7
tkglazie Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Posts: 558	Since you only have 100 to use up, I think your best bet is to just pick or the other of the LP primers and have at it. The 230gr FMJRN is easily one of the easiest and most forgiving bullets you can load with. With 100 on hand, you should easily be able to work up the accurate GI ball load you are looking for with the first 50 and have a box on hand. For reference, I load this bullet over 5.1gr HP38/W231 at 1.255" and see about 750fps out of my SR1911. Not quite GI level velocities, but it is very accurate in my gun and feeds reliably.

September 18, 2012, 07:56 PM	#9
sidewindr Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2011 Location: somewhere out there Posts: 101	Win 231/HP-38 will be a good trial load, you'll like it.