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Old September 15, 2012, 08:42 PM   #1
TheSILENTtype
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Help the battle - Remington 870 CBS vs .30.30/.308

Hey crew.

I was sent for my quarterly QShoot this afternoon
(93% @ 1000, 94% @ 1500 x .75, 99% @ S.A. 50yd .25 & 100% - 100% S.A. and PW @ 44 -- for those curious, competitive or active. )

While on the range, I was shooting some hunting breeze with a Civillian.
He and I had a vast disagreement regarding a certain function ( or ability lack thereof ) regarding an 870 vs a savage .308 or a marlin .30-.30 when all around hunting.

Well it goes without saying this comparison when speaking about 'all around hunting' it just sheerly rediculous by any measure, as hunting mostly every form of small game and in circumstances interchanging some large game would be impossible for the rifles mentioned... enlighten this conversation..

Unfortunately while working, I can not comment on brands etc. so I promise I would get back to him on a private trip to his spot ( where I see him routinely ) with a response from you guys.

He feels the usage of a Remington 870 with an 18" barrel, rifled sites / telescopicly mounted & adjustable stock from NorthEastern and a magazine conversion ( we will say for deer and bear to narrow it down ) is completely useless in densely forested areas, or choppings not exceeding 100yds.

He suggests the Remington CBS only ABLE purpose ( not intended, but able )
is that of breeching doors or in a riot. And that at 100 yards, weather I am using slugs or 00 I will be lucky if a single hit makes it on a still target.
( Ignore my experience or having shot 94%at1500 , and assume he is speaking of any experienced hunter. )

He additionally feels , no matter who is wielding the 870 in it's form mentioned above, he with his choice of the two rifles, will be able to clean out a target moving at a high rate of speed at 50 yards using a 9 x bushnell hunting scope , cycle and get off an additional hit - prior to anyones ability to hit it once with the 870 via slug, 00, ssg or any other load at the same distance.

Now, I personally am not going to post any of my thoughts.. and I am sure it speaks for itself why.

HOWEVER - I am looking for your opinions, logistic, and experience to provide me with a forum, where I can direct him for a read.

Fire for effect, Gentlemen.
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Old September 15, 2012, 09:46 PM   #2
jmr40
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Shotgun will work if no rifle is available or not legal. But the rifle is a far better choice period.
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Old September 15, 2012, 10:07 PM   #3
MLeake
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That depends on if all-around hunting includes birds and small game, jmr40.

And for the type of terrain cited, a 9X scope could be a real problem (NFOV).
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Old September 16, 2012, 01:13 AM   #4
Buzzcook
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18" barrel is not my idea of a 100yd or longer shotgun. Definitely with shot, slugs may work but I'd need to see the proof at the range.
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Old September 16, 2012, 06:22 AM   #5
Bud Helms
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I hunted for many years on active US Air Force Base property (Type II Reservation). Rifles were not permitted. I hunted with a bone stock standard Rem 870 with a 28 in modified barrel. I soon added a 1-2.5x Herter's scope. Now I realize that is not an 18 in barrel, but I lost count of the number of whitetail put down with Remington slugs in that shotgun over a period of nearly 10 years. 00 and 000 buckshot were permitted, but that is definitely a range limited proposition. I never hunted with them.

Quote:
He feels the usage of a Remington 870 with an 18" barrel, rifled sites / telescopicly mounted & adjustable stock from NorthEastern and a magazine conversion ( we will say for deer and bear to narrow it down ) is completely useless in densely forested areas, or choppings not exceeding 100yds.
I'm not sure what you mean by "rifled sites", but a collapsible buttstock and magazine conversion have nothing to do with the lethality of the round. The barrel is another thing altogether.

I would want to chrono the rounds I intended to hunt with before going out with an 18 in barrel, but my expectation is that it would be perfectly fine.

Changing the barrel on an 870 is a very simple operation.

[Edited to add: There no question the advantage a .30-30 or .308 Win rifle would have in comparison.]
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Last edited by Bud Helms; September 16, 2012 at 08:45 PM.
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Old September 16, 2012, 01:11 PM   #6
TheSILENTtype
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@ BUD, I was describing the firearm as it was being used upon the conversation being struckup. ( In regards to the seemingly irrelevant stock description ).

Just covering all 'angles' so my pal can't hit me with a ..'well you didn't mention........to them' kind of thing.
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Old September 16, 2012, 01:30 PM   #7
44 AMP
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Personal opinion...

It sounds like your friend either has no personal experience with the shotgun, or has a small amount and did poorly, and so judges everyone else by his standard.

40 years ago, when I was hunting deer & black bear in the Adirondaks of NY, the shotgun, withOUT rifle sights or optics, before rifled slug barrels, or sabot slugs were common, was considered a 60yd (or so) deer gun with slugs.

Of course, this would vary somewhat with the skill of the shooter, and yes, there are some shooters who would be lucky to hit the broad side of a barn, from the inside....

Curiously, buckshot was not legal for deer, but it was legal for black bear. And the entire Southern Zone of NY state was shotgun only, for deer & bear. 20ga, or larger, please...

Making two hits on a "rapidly" moving target at 50yds, with a 9x scoped rifle before the shotgun shooter can make one? OK, IF the rifle shooter is a master class and the shotgun shooter is incompetent. Otherwise, no.

Tracking, let alone getting and keeping the crosshairs on a rapidly moving target long enough to get an accurate shot off at 9x is a very, very challenging task, and is simply beyond most people's skill.

Perhaps your friend meant at 3x using a 3-9x variable. That is much more easily done. But that isn't what you said he said....

Invite your friend to the range, and have him bring his choice. You bring yours, and see who can live up to their claims. That should make it obvious that he's being a bit boastful.

Good Luck.
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Old September 16, 2012, 02:11 PM   #8
TheSILENTtype
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I would never waste the loads, or dirty my barrel for a competition that presents no competition at all.

Just looking to create a reading resource for him to refer to. Thanks guys.
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Old September 17, 2012, 08:01 PM   #9
Doc TH
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shotgun

Look at the Hickok 45 video on Youtube re. shotgun slug shooting at 200+ yards.
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