The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 6, 2012, 06:52 PM   #1
kealil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2011
Posts: 207
UPS change of policy

Hey all!

Just thought I'd share something interesting that happened to me today.

I recently got a RCBS bullet feeder for my new press from Cabelas. After fiddling with it for two weeks to make it feed lead bullets, I gave up. So I grabbed the prepaid shipping label for UPS out of the box and packaged the unit back up again, all ready to go. I bring it to my local UPS store, and they say they can't take it because it is firearm related.

At this point I'm really confused because I can't even recall how many dozens of firearm related returns I've performed with UPS in the past through cabelas. They then pull out an official looking notice that instructs all third party UPS stores to no longer accept , and I quote "Any items related to or concerning firearms including: Firearm parts, accessories, components, literature..." starting the first of September. The list went further but I think you got the gist of it.

In the end I had to go to the local terminal to drop off the package. Lucky for me its only about a mile away from that UPS store.

Crazy if you ask me but I guess with all the shootings lately, UPS is just trying to cover their butts in some way.

What do you guys think?
__________________
"A weapon without a name is nothing; Just another hunk of steel, wood, or what have you. A weapon with a name is more. It is a partner, a friend, and a comrade to the end"
kealil is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 07:02 PM   #2
zoomie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: WY
Posts: 1,750
Not new at all.
zoomie is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 07:04 PM   #3
THORN74
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2010
Location: Chicago 'Burbs
Posts: 513
Just try a diff store , I got the same guff recently. Tried a diff store and they didn't even ask. Otherwise just tell them its car parts. Most ups store ppl don't know anything about guns. They wouldn't know by mfr what ur shipping.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
THORN74 is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 07:21 PM   #4
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 6,825
UPS Stores are not owned by UPS, they're owned by local owners. They can make their own rules in most cases.

I'd be hesitant to lie to the store about what you're shipping.
When you sign the shipping document you're signing a legal contract.
Lie on the form and you violate the legal contract. They will not give you a dime if the package is lost or damaged.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 07:27 PM   #5
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
I couldn't use the UPS Store or the Shipping Store for firearm related things in the past, in GA; haven't tried yet in MO, but probably won't - the actual UPS and FedEx terminals are closer than the "stores".

I think it's probably normal for UPS shipment to require a trip to their local hub; I would not be surprised if it's the same deal with FedEx.
MLeake is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 08:11 PM   #6
Jeff H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 20, 2009
Posts: 148
Quote:
I'd be hesitant to lie to the store about what you're shipping.
When you sign the shipping document you're signing a legal contract.
Lie on the form and you violate the legal contract. They will not give you a dime if the package is lost or damaged.
Reloading equipment items are tools. There is no need to expand upon what type of tools they are or what they are used for. Just say you are returning some tools to the manufacturer for warranty work. That is a truthful statement.


Come to think of it, guns are tools too, but that might be stretching it since they have specific rules on guns.
Jeff H is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 08:16 PM   #7
kealil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2011
Posts: 207
ok I understand not shipping firearm parts and firearms themselves, but Gun Books? Reloading equipment?

I have never had any trouble with UPS stores in the past for everything from gun magazines, reloading materials, and more. I just figured that the way it was before september 1st was normal
__________________
"A weapon without a name is nothing; Just another hunk of steel, wood, or what have you. A weapon with a name is more. It is a partner, a friend, and a comrade to the end"
kealil is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 11:10 PM   #8
jonnyc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 825
Non-hub UPS outlets have been off-limits for a long while now for sending firearms or live ammo, but this example is ridiculous. I know of no recent UPS policy changes.
jonnyc is offline  
Old September 6, 2012, 11:33 PM   #9
medalguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,017
Jeez, no shipping gun books? How ridiculous can they get? I understand private businesses can do whatever they want, but don't they realize the revenue they are losing by all this silly crap?
medalguy is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 03:11 AM   #10
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,804
Yep, not surprising at all.

Earlier this year, I had a rifle stock and a barrel I was shipping to some people. Due to the packaging, UPS was the cheapest option.

My local UPS store refused the first shipment when I said it was a rifle stock. Even after I opened the package and showed them that it was nothing but a chunk of wood, they still refused it. But... the closest hub is a pain to get to, and I didn't have time. So, I went to the next closest store, told them it was a wood carving, and sent the stock on its way.

I shipped the barrel a few days later. I walked into the store that refused to ship the stock and handed them the packaging tube, and they asked what it was. "A threaded steel pipe," was my reply. The manager took it, headed for their 'outgoing' bin, and I walked toward the door. As I was opening the door, the manager asked why it was so heavy. I left them with, "Because it's 26 inches long and only has a 22 caliber hole in it."

I know they were not happy with me; but I got in my truck and left, and the barrel arrived safely at its destination a few days later.

(If they had a serious problem shipping the barrel, they had the ability to look up my contact information. Plus, I had already paid for insurance. I wasn't worried about leaving the barrel there.)
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 05:40 AM   #11
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,408
My local UPS store never asks me what's in a package, only if I want more than the standard insurance. I suppose if you buy extra insurance perhaps you then have to declare the contents more precisely.

And I have never had to sign anything when shipping UPS, not even at a UPS hub.
Aguila Blanca is online now  
Old September 7, 2012, 09:30 AM   #12
cannonfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 497
Guns and ammo and parts get shipped through UPS all the time (I used to work there). UPS is hurting for revenue (by their standards) and I highly highly doubt they put a restriction on firearm related stuff.

What surprises me is that the stores are allowed to say stuff is prohibited but UPS still accepts it. How can independent stores regulate the company like that?

This should be brought to UPS' attention
__________________
Segui il tuo corso e lascia dir le genti - Dante

Blaming guns for crime is like blaming the planes for 9/11
cannonfire is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 10:45 AM   #13
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
The independent stores are not regulating UPS; they are imposing their own local or franchise rules.

Meanwhile, I hadn't noticed the OP's reference to literature. Thanks to others for catching that. This is new, unwelcome, and more than a bit ridiculous.
MLeake is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 04:40 PM   #14
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,804
Quote:
What surprises me is that the stores are allowed to say stuff is prohibited but UPS still accepts it. How can independent stores regulate the company like that?

This should be brought to UPS' attention
UPS is well aware of it. The UPS Store locations are franchises, they're not corporate-owned and operated.

And, I believe the OP is stating that he was shown an official UPS policy letter, that said UPS, itself, would no longer accept firearms-related items from UPS stores.



Quote:
Crazy if you ask me but I guess with all the shootings lately, UPS is just trying to cover their butts in some way.
It's not the shootings. It's just UPS's closet anti-gun management. The only reason they ship firearms, is because they are required to by law.
Refusing firearms-related gear at UPS stores has been discussed quite a few times over the last 3-5 years. It's nothing new.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 05:33 PM   #15
sigcurious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
What law requires them to?
sigcurious is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 06:14 PM   #16
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,804
Quote:
What law requires them to?
I can't remember the exact subsections, but it's in 18 U.S.C. 922 and/or 18 U.S.C. 921.
When combined with Common Carrier regulations (47 U.S.C.), they cannot refuse (safe) firearms shipments. They can restrict them and force you to do stupid things like ship them Next-Day Air, but they can't refuse the shipment.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 03:03 AM   #17
stevelyn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell
Posts: 2,618
Machine parts is all they need to to know.............. if they even ask.
__________________
Herman Cain '12

Squished bugs on a windshield is proof the slow/heavy bullet theory works.
stevelyn is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 09:58 AM   #18
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelyn
Machine parts is all they need to to know....
A very bad idea.

When one fails to (1) disclose that the package contains a handgun (or a gun, if shipping FedEx); and (2) ships ground instead of overnight, he has violated the UPS or FedEx tariff. That is part of the contract of shipment. By violating the contract, the shipper lets the carrier off the hook on any insurance claim. So don't expect any coverage if your shipment is lost or damaged.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 10:05 PM   #19
BGutzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
Maybe just give the manufacturer and model number of the item and send it back without reference to the purpose... Your not misleading, you say exactly what it is, you dont elaborate..
__________________
Molon Labe
BGutzman is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 10:57 PM   #20
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGutzman
Maybe just give the manufacturer and model number of the item and send it back without reference to the purpose... Your not misleading, you say exactly what it is, you dont elaborate..
Nope, that's not sufficient. The UPS tariff specifically requires that the shipper verbally notify the agent that the item shipped is an unloaded handgun, if it is.

The FedEx tariff requires verbal notification if it's any firearm.

There's really nothing to be gained by being cute.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old September 11, 2012, 10:38 AM   #21
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,408
I believe the Federal law covering interstate shipment of handguns also requires that the shipper be notified that the package contains a handgun.

18 USC 922(e):

Quote:
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or
cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for
transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to
persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers,
licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without
written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is
being transported or shipped
; except that any passenger who owns or
legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard
any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or
ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or
operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the
trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No
common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag,
or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other
container contains a firearm.
Of course, now that I read that again, it does appear that if I'm shipping to an FFL I don't have to notify the shipper. But that's not what the BATFE tells you.

I'm confused (again/still).
Aguila Blanca is online now  
Old September 11, 2012, 01:16 PM   #22
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
...Of course, now that I read that again, it does appear that if I'm shipping to an FFL I don't have to notify the shipper. But that's not what the BATFE tells you.

I'm confused (again/still).
That's a little error in the ATF FAQs. I guess they don't think it's important enough to bother fixing.

In any case, UPS and FedEx in their tariffs require verbal notification if shipping a handgun, and Fed Ex also requires verbal notification if shipping a long gun.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old September 12, 2012, 11:30 AM   #23
BGutzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
Quote:
There's really nothing to be gained by being cute.
Fair enough, I should have see that one coming... Point made.
__________________
Molon Labe
BGutzman is offline  
Old September 15, 2012, 10:03 AM   #24
thickice
Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 61
For those of you who advocate declaring "machine parts" go to this link, scroll down, and note what "Quinn" was convicted of. Yes there were other charges but they aren't pertinent to this thread. http://www.ledgernews.com/news/503-m...afficking-case
thickice is offline  
Old September 15, 2012, 11:41 AM   #25
thedudeabides
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2012
Posts: 990
No UPS store accepts gun related stuff. You have to go to a depot.

It mostly has to do with the fact that UPS stores are third parties not directly affiliated with UPS and they don't want to accept the liability of dealing with guns.
thedudeabides is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14220 seconds with 9 queries