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Old September 14, 2012, 08:06 PM   #1
tahunua001
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new elk gun, need ideas.

hello all,
I am gearing up for elk season and am getting pretty psyched about it but I have one small problem.
I hate my rifle. don't get me wrong it's a great gun. weatherby vanguard in 300 weatherby mag. however I do not like the stock and I HATE the recoil. I have lots of other guns that are capable of taking elk but nothing that I'm capable of making those 350+ yard kill shots with.

I am looking for something that will not break the bank and has a good reputation for accuracy and rugged construction. hoping to keep everything under 700 after optics(we'll say under $200 for optics selection)

I do not loath the recoil of the 7mm rem mag quite as much as the weatherby so I figured that would be a good step down without sacrificing the flat trajectory needed for elk hunting in my area.

if there is any way to upgrade to a heavy thumbhole stock and still come in under budget that would be great but is not terribly imperative but I would still like the option of doing so later on so good aftermarket support is preferred.

I have an old remington 700 in 243 that I love but it seems that a lot of the cheaper 700s I see in the store have those lightweight synth stocks(more recoil in a magnum which is what I am trying to get away from) and that nasty gritty black coating on the bolts.

anyone know the availability and price range of a 700 ADL in 7mm RMag or a similarly decent rifle?
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:03 PM   #2
math teacher
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I assume you have tried gunbroker.com. The 7mmRM would be a good choice. My recommendation is to use a good premimum 160 gr. bullet such as the Nosler Accubond or Partition or the Barnes Triple Shock.
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:07 PM   #3
tahunua001
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I have never once seen anything on gunbroker that I would call a good deal. couple with the fact that I will have to add FFL+ s&h to that I would rather try to find something that you can walk into just about any LGS and order.
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:26 PM   #4
math teacher
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I checked craiglist for your area. Apparently they don't allow firearms. I have a 338 with a synthetic stock that was too light. I removed the recoil pad and dug out the foam. Then I put a small bag of lead shot all the way forward, filled the stock with foam insulation, and replaced the pad. That tamed the recoil and still balanced OK. One solution.
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:27 PM   #5
DennisCA
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The 7mm RM is more than enough to kill a elk! No sense of getting a gun with the recoil you have a hard time handling. Something with more recoil, you'll develop a "flinch" and in end not making the shot when you need to. I bet if talk enough elk hunters, they probably tell you that a lot of elk are shot under the 350 yard range. One more thing, it takes a lot a practice to hit a elk at 350 yards!
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Old September 14, 2012, 11:47 PM   #6
big al hunter
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Put a new stock on your 300 weatherby. You can have the thumb hole stock you want, this year. The added weight will tame the recoil to close to the same as the 7 mm mag you are thinking about. If that is not enough get a muzzle brake or super shock absorbing butt pad. With the money you save you can still afford a new scope ( maybe, depends on what stock you get). Just a thought.
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Old September 15, 2012, 12:03 AM   #7
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You can get a Tikka T3 Hunter at Buds for $595.00 in 7mm Rem. Mag.
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Old September 15, 2012, 01:05 AM   #8
FrankenMauser
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I understand your situation. .300 Weatherby + Vanguard = one of the worst combinations ever conceived.

The cheapest solution would be a Boyd's laminate stock, and a good recoil pad. (The Boyd's buttplate isn't going to work for .300 Weatherby.) The Vanguards don't have a 'magnum' length action, so the long action version is what you'd be looking at. However, they don't offer any thumbhole variants for the Vanguard.
Just a rough estimate... I'd say the Boyd's stock should add at least 18-20 ounces to the rifle, if you have the synthetic stock. ...maybe 10-13 ounces, if you have the "hardwood" stock.

You could also consider a recoil reducer/decelerator in the stock. But... they usually aren't cheap, and will require a visit to a gunsmith with experience installing them.
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Old September 15, 2012, 01:37 AM   #9
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If you like the Rem 700 in .243 you can rechamber/barrel that for .308.

If the rifle is only for elk, then get a Stevens Model 200.
Here's one in 7mm-08. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=306340519

The 200 is easily accurate to moment of elk. 350yds is within the range of most standard cartridges. You will have to figure bullet drop into that, but not much.
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Old September 15, 2012, 12:00 PM   #10
tahunua001
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alright let me see here.
Quote:
I checked craiglist for your area. Apparently they don't allow firearms.
I know, it's infuriating sometimes, I just thought that was craigslist everywhere since Virginia and Florida CL seemed to block firearms too.
Quote:
The 7mm RM is more than enough to kill a elk! No sense of getting a gun with the recoil you have a hard time handling. Something with more recoil, you'll develop a "flinch" and in end not making the shot when you need to. I bet if talk enough elk hunters, they probably tell you that a lot of elk are shot under the 350 yard range. One more thing, it takes a lot a practice to hit a elk at 350 yards!
in my opinion the 7mm RM is probably one of the best elk rounds out there. I just bought the weatherby off my brother because he didn't want it after he found out how much ammo costs and was letting it go for cheap and I needed something bigger than 243. however the location that I have drawn for elk tags is mostly VERY dense forests that is impossible to track elk in with the only open areas being across canyons. the average my brothers and I have found with a range finder being 500 yards. it would be nice to sit over a salt lick and let them come to me but idaho doesn't allow hunting near salt licks or the establishment of food plots so hoofing it out in rough country is about all we can do out here.

Quote:
Put a new stock on your 300 weatherby.
I've considered this but the only aftermarket stocks I've seen are for the MKV rather than Vanguard actions.

Quote:
You can get a Tikka T3 Hunter at Buds for $595.00 in 7mm Rem. Mag.
sounds like a good deal but once I pay for FFL+shipping that would only leave me around 50 dollars for optics to come in under budget.

Quote:
I understand your situation. .300 Weatherby + Vanguard = one of the worst combinations ever conceived.
I wouldn't go that far. it's a fairly accurate rifle and I love the action on it but it would be nice if I could shoot a 3 round group without getting a bruised shoulder.

Quote:
If you like the Rem 700 in .243 you can rechamber/barrel that for .308.
absolutely not. I inherited this rifle from my dad and it's all I have left of him so there is really no way that I willing to modify it in any way. also I've never been much of a fan of the 308. I figure the 30-06 has the same bullet drop, velocity drop and wind drift as the 308 but with higher velocity and FTLBs throughout and the 243 does better over range if I want to target shoot or do long range deer hunts so I really never found much use for the 308.

keep them coming boys, I appreciate all the input.
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Old September 15, 2012, 12:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
I have lots of other guns that are capable of taking elk but nothing that I'm capable of making those 350+ yard kill shots with.

A 308 is a legitimate 400 yard elk gun, a 30-06 is more than capable at 500, your 300 WBY is a 600 yard gun. IF you are good enough to shoot them at those ranges

If you are going to limit your shots to 350 yards I'd go 308 or 30-06 and not look back.

It is smaller than I'd like, but don't tell this girl a 243 isn't enough for an elk gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
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Old September 15, 2012, 01:55 PM   #12
tahunua001
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I don't own a 308 and it's just my opinion but I believe that there are many much better suited rounds out there. I generally try to limit myself to within 300 yards but based on a couple scouting trips I'm afraid I probably will not have the luxury of doing that for this particular hunt.

I have 7.62x54r, 303 brit, 30-06 and all are capable of killing elk at those ranges it's just that those are all open sights...at that range I can barely see the elk, no less pic out the kill zone.
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Old September 15, 2012, 03:15 PM   #13
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Do you handload?

The 30-06 is never a bad idea. If you handload you can come close enough to 7 mag not to worry. FWIW I'd be taking one of my 30-06's elk hunting and I have 300 and 7mm mags that would stay home. It is not recoil as much as rifle weight. I can stand the recoil. It only lasts for a fracton of a second. I carry the rifle for hundreds of hours each season. At 400-500 yards none of the magnums offer any advantage. Only when you stretch the range, and I figure I'm only good enough for 400 yards with any rifle. The trajectory at those ranges is not enough to matter on elk either. Maybe prarie dogs.

308 ain't for everybody, but it does offer some advantages if you choose your rifle wisely. There is no sense in choosing a 308 over a 30-06 in standard size and weight rifles. If you choose carefully though you can get a 308 in a rifle that is up to 3 lbs lighter and much more handy. It will give up VERY little real world performance. It'll still kill an elk at 400 yards and be a lot easier to carry up the mountains.

With a $700 budget I'd look at the TC Venture at around $400-$500. It depands on the exact version you get. They are about 7 lbs, not too heavy, not too light and are earning a reputation as one of the most accurate rifles in current production at any cost. I'd personally go 30-06, but they are offered in a wide variety of calibers including 7 mag.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/venture.php

I'd strongly suggest a Leupold VX-2 as the best scope for the money at about $300. That might put you slightly over budget, but I'd eat PBJ sandwiches for a month. It will be worth it in the long run.
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Old September 15, 2012, 05:21 PM   #14
Nathan
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I like the Boyd's stock idea with a good recoil pad and good bedding. I would add a mercury recoil reducer to be safe.

Also putting a heavier, better scope on would help also. If you reload, you could download slightly 100-200fps and change your recoil quite a bit.

Weight plus downloading would be best here. 300 Weatherby is a perfect Elk gun. Personally, I would target 12 -13 lbs with scope.
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Old September 15, 2012, 05:22 PM   #15
tahunua001
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I like 30-06 and have the dies for it and everything but for some reason I have some little guy screaming at me in the back of my head whenever I think of getting more than one rifle in the same caliber. even though my 06 is a 101 year old springfield with open sights and not at all what I would want banging against trees I still can't seem to bring myself to buy even something cheap like a ruger american in 06.
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Old September 15, 2012, 06:07 PM   #16
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I put this Boyds laminated stock on my .300 Win Mag Ruger 77 Mk II all-weather. I had it pillar and glass bedded and the barrel free floated by a gunsmith and it will shoot one hole groups if I'm shooting good.

And it appears to have dampened the recoil some also.

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Old September 16, 2012, 12:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Quote:
You can get a Tikka T3 Hunter at Buds for $595.00 in 7mm Rem. Mag.
sounds like a good deal but once I pay for FFL+shipping that would only leave me around 50 dollars for optics to come in under budget.
Why can't you take the scope off of your existing rifle?
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Old September 16, 2012, 08:30 AM   #18
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You already have the right rifle, you need a decent stock. A Hogue full length bedded or a B&C Medalist would tame the recoil considerably.
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Old September 16, 2012, 11:46 AM   #19
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I was always told that synthetic stocks help assorb recoil.

That being said I don't own a magnum rifle with a synthetic stock so I don't know first hand what the recoil is like with such a rifle, as a matter of fact I've never felt the need to own a magnum rifle.

I do have a Remington 280 with synthetic stock and I love it.
I have three rifles to choose from if I was going elk hunting, the 280 being one of them, the other two are a Remingtom 30-06 and a custom built 8MM.

Going by what Ackley thought was the minimum energy required to down an elk (1500 ft lbs) any of the above three would do the job out to 400 yards and do so with less recoil then the rompin, stompin, shoulder brusing magnums.

Good luck on the upcoming elk season.

Best Regards
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Old September 16, 2012, 12:10 PM   #20
big al hunter
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Best recoil reducer is a muzzle brake. 200$ A 10 year old could shoot your gun all day long. Makes em loud though.
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Old September 16, 2012, 01:22 PM   #21
tahunua001
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Quote:
I was always told that synthetic stocks help assorb recoil.
I've been told that on a number of occasions too but the simple math is that plastic is lighter than wood and with many synthetic stocks being hollow ot some point many of them are much lighter than their wood counterparts.

taking newtons laws into account it makes perfect sense that contrary to internet marketing, many synthetic stocks are in fact worse for felt recoil. of course there are exceptions to the rule like hogue's rubber overmold stocks.
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Old September 16, 2012, 04:27 PM   #22
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Most synthetic stocks flex a bit under recoil spreading out the recoil. My friends swear their MacMillan stocks give less felt recoil than the original wood stocks. I replaced my wood stock with a MacMillan and though it is lighter, I couldn't tell any difference. MacMillans are expensive however.
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Old September 16, 2012, 07:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
A 308 is a legitimate 400 yard elk gun, a 30-06 is more than capable at 500, your 300 WBY is a 600 yard gun. IF you are good enough to shoot them at those ranges
I'd love to hear KRAIGWY's take on this.
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Old September 16, 2012, 08:03 PM   #24
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If you hate the 300 WBY there is no use dressing up the pig. Not to insult the cartridge, but if you already hate it and it is in your heat that it is going to kick your butt, it's hard to fix that and get it shooting good groups.

IMHO the perfect power range for elk is the 300WM/WSM. That will take you to a good 800 yards, in the right hands. The wind correction to get to ~700 was not hard for me at all, on the one I shot that far.

I am not a fan of the 7mm simply because I have known too many people who lost elk shot with them. I will not say this sample is representative of what the cartridge could do, but like I said about the 300 WBY once you get the doubt in your head it is better to go with it than try to fight it. I prefer 30cal and 338cal holes in elk, just me....

For more average ranges (200-400 yds), why not a 30-06 pushing 180gr bullets? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Common cartridge you already have dies for, and WAY less recoil than the 300 WBY. If I was not going to shoot over 500 yards on elk I would see no need to take more recoil than that delivered by a 30-06.
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Old September 16, 2012, 08:16 PM   #25
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Look for a Savage in 7mm usually the $$ is resonable. Just don't get one with their old plastic stock. Hardest kicking gun I've ever fired.


http://www.gunsamerica.com/928707196...AVAGE_110E.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/937324399...VAGE_18755.htm

You might be able to find one close to you for cheaper.
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