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Old August 28, 2012, 05:26 AM   #1
CommonSense
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Just did the german Schützenschnur! ( German Armed Fortces Marksmanship shoot)

I am in Afghanistan in a German Forces Area of Operations( German occupied land). I was blessed with the opportunity to shoot their issued weapons systems. The Schützenschnur is basically their weapons qualification course exept Its treated similarly like a competition from what I gathered. I'm typing what I was able to understand from the German Major's broken English so it was a bit of a challenge to ask and understand questions. Other than that, heres the details... In the Marksmanship course, at station One a P8 ( A.K.A. USP 9mm) is fired two iterations standing 5 rounds at 25 meters at human silouette, totalling ten fired ounds. Then we fired two iterations of 2 rnds standing, 2 kneeling, and lastly 2 prone, totalling 12 rounds. The Second Station is the G3 or MG as they called it. Its a 7.62 disintegrating link belt fed machine gun. Three iterations of 15 rounds are fired at three of I believe 8 smaller targets all on the same piece of paper. I had a great time! Was a fun shoot and will try to put up some pics...
I also was afforded the opportunity to shoot the H&K 417 Service rifle. Their Sniper section was using it as a multi-range multipurpose rifle. I do not know a whole lot about it other than it was an AR platform that fired a 7.62 x 51and It also had a Schmidt and Bender scope in3-20 zoom with a reflex sight atop the scope. I fired that at various ranges from 300-800 meters. I just wanted to share it with the community I guess...Not meant for bragging, I simply thought some may find this interesting.

Last edited by CommonSense; August 28, 2012 at 05:33 AM.
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Old August 28, 2012, 06:53 AM   #2
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We qualified with Panzergrenadier Battalion 102 in the early 80's in Germany. At that time, we fired the P1, G3 and MG3. It was a great experience. Does the Army still let you wear the Schutzenschnur on your uniform?
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Old August 28, 2012, 07:14 AM   #3
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Yes you can still wear on the Class A uniform. Dont understand their scoring system fully so I dont know what I'm getting.

Dont know whats going on . Added photo attachments and they arent fully uploading... dang
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Old August 28, 2012, 08:48 AM   #4
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I didn't quite understand it either. I ended up with Silver and from what I could gather, I was falling a target or two short at 300 meters with the G3. My German is pretty bad and their English was, too.
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Old August 28, 2012, 09:52 AM   #5
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Nice, always enjoyed seeing how others (other Military) do it.

I know it would have been difficult, if not impossible for you, but I sure would like to have seen videos of your shoot.

Also like to see how other countries faired shooting the German CoF and comparing the same armies shooting ours.

(if you detected a bit of envy its because its there)
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Old August 28, 2012, 11:51 PM   #6
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It has become a whole lot easier to get the Schützenschnur in the past 30 some years.

The Schützenschnur got into fashion after the 80 year war that ended in 1648 and left the Netherlands under the Spanish crown. The Spanish king ordered any Dutchman found with a musket to be hung and the Dutch mocked them by carrying their own rope attached to their coat on their left shoulder, providing their own rope to get hung - after taking the musket.

In 1720 the Prussian king started to give the Schützenschnur to the best marksmen.
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Old August 29, 2012, 08:40 AM   #7
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the Dutch mocked them by carrying their own rope attached to their coat on their left shoulder, providing their own rope to get hung - after taking the musket.
I like it.

I wonder if that is how the rope looking decorations on military dress uniforms, and the ropes of different colors (depending on branch) that we (or our enlisted) wear on our dress uniforms.

Any one know?
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Old August 29, 2012, 09:20 AM   #8
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I got mine in 1988 with an Artillery unit in Tauberbischoffsheim.....

Pistol- P-1 (P-38 looking thing) .... I shot it pretty well

G3 Rifle- hated that thing- drum rear sight with no windage adjustment other than Kentucky-mine shot a foot left at 100 meters- cost me the "Gold"

MG3- Outstanding LMG, though the non-disintegrating links were a PITA to keep track of .... and the little meat grinder looking deally they had to reload them reinforced my belief that Germans had a special tool for EVERYTHING! That weapon made me realize just what a fine example of suck and fail the M-60MG truly was.

UZI smg- I still remember the markings on the selector switch: "E", "S", and "D" ..... which we took to mean "engage", "safe", and "destroy". I thought that while short enough to fit into the drivers compartment of an M110a2 or VTR, that thing and a basic load of ammo would have been quit a lot to hump if you ever had to rely on your LPC's......

I enjoyed the range days, unit/section competitions* and dining-in (BEER!) with our TBB Bundeswehr counterparts..... lotsa fun!


*One of the events the Germans did as to disassemble one of each small arm type in a section, mix the parts in a spade box, and race to reassemble and function check.
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Old August 29, 2012, 10:07 AM   #9
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I have a photo at home of the company my son was serving in at the time in Germany, before they deployed to Iraq, and several of the men had the German shooting badges.

To answer the question about "ropes," it varies. Before WWI when the US Army was still wearing blue as a dress uniform and OD for everything else, they wore "breast cords" purely as an adornment as full dress. With one exception, all other cords worn in the army are French decorations, I believe, though I don't know the origin in the French army.

The British go crazy with unit uniform distinctions, so much so that the word "uniform" is rarely used. Most of what is seen now in the way of shoulder cords originated as whistle or knife lanyards. They tend to wear unit colors, sometimes even company colors. Plaited shoulder cords are worn on full dress uniforms in the Household Cavalry mounted squadron and at the time of the American Revolution, very similiar but much plainer cords were worn as marks of rank.

One distinction that is an exception in the US Army is the shoulder band (if you could call it that, don't know how the regs refer to it) worn by the 3d Infantry. It's supposed to represent the shoulder strap of a pack, so the story goes.

The most curious use of cords on a uniform were the cords worn by hussar regiments in some armies as late as WWI that consisted of a length of wool cord about 1/4 inch in diameter that also had a number of "barrels" of metal along the length. It was doubled and wrapped around the waist about three times, the metal barrels all lined up nice and neat and the ends tucked away somewhere. It was something like the sash still worn at military academies but I don't remember the name, even in English.

Remember, the side with the plainest uniforms wins.

Just remembered: it's called a barrel sash or hordó szárny.
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Old August 29, 2012, 10:27 PM   #10
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The shoulder rope of aid-de-camps to general officers stems from the practice of both and French and English officers serving in th functions of aides wearing a rope with a pencil tied to the end of it to have it handy for transcribing orders from thier General. That transferred over to the Contitental Army.

The Marines (2/6th and a regiment from the 5th) were awarded the French Fourrage after WWI and contiue to wear it as tradition.

Not sure why the Infantry wears the blue rope. Didn't cover that at Knox or NJROTC. lol
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Old August 30, 2012, 03:09 PM   #11
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Blue is the infantry color, formerly white. Infantry are, or were, at least, permitted to wear additional uniform distinctions like the blue disc behind the service cap and collar insignia, although the AG44 service cap is I suppose out of wear. I didn't remember they wore a blue cord, however.

One thing everyone used to wear with certain uniforms in the 1950s through the 1970s, perhaps later, was a scarf in branch colors or sometimes camouflage. It was described as "bib style," which is a fairly accurate way of putting it. They were worn usually with fatigue uniforms, which is about all that was worn overseas, except for very special occasions when class A uniforms were worn or the wool shirt and pants were worn, usually for formal guard mount or some such stuff. Mine was in cobalt blue, which meant I was.....?
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:50 PM   #12
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Cobalt? Isn't that what the chemical warfare guys wear?

Yeah, I wrote a very well written, well supported letter concerning Infantry acctrouaments.

Specifically, it irks me to no end, that as a dismounted Cav Scout, carrying an M-4A1 and a rucksack, just like an 11B, I merely rated a CAB instead of a CIB.

Argh. Institute a Combat Cavalryman Badge.

Apparently, after WWII, designs were drawn up for a Combat Armor, Cavalry, and Artillery badge to go along with th CIB and CFMB.
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Old August 30, 2012, 07:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Just did the german Schützenschnur!
How cool is that !!!! Good for you, I wish I had such an opportunity - sounds like a neat experience
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Old August 31, 2012, 10:45 AM   #14
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I hope I figured it out so you all can see some pics...
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Old August 31, 2012, 10:56 AM   #15
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some more pics...
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Old August 31, 2012, 11:48 AM   #16
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Strange uniform colours and unhealthy hot climate.

Normal conditions:

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Old September 1, 2012, 05:06 AM   #17
CommonSense
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PzGren your crazy! Ide way rather be in the heat Wearing the body armor while doing it sucks though... It was rediculous watching other soldiers attempt to lay in the prone with layers of mags on their chest, not to mention a thick plate on their sternum too. We were just outside the wire about 1 click so we had to wear it. (there wasnt any brass out their with the exeption of a LTCOL whom was competing too so we were able to drop our Lids/Helmets between iterations
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Old September 3, 2012, 03:35 AM   #18
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I lived in the Carribean for too long and enjoy the seasons. You can dress for the cold better than for the heat.
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Old September 3, 2012, 12:15 PM   #19
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I look at the MG-3 pic and think to myself that the old adage of "if it ain't broke; don't fix it" still applies in some quarters.
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:25 AM   #20
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You can dress for the cold better than for the heat.
I've lived south of I-10 in the US for my whole life except when I was in the military. Hated the cold with a passion. I much prefer to dress for the heat than for the cold.
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