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Old September 10, 2012, 04:27 PM   #1
freebird72
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Is $612 to much for this gun(S&W586)?

I was bidding on this gun(586-3) on a website, but I never got the gun to meet the reserve price. My max bid was $560. I got an email from the seller today saying he would sell this gun for this price; that would make it $612 after shipping and fees. The thing is, I was the only person bidding on the gun after $400. So I was the one driving the price up trying to get the gun to meet reserve. So now I have the option of buying the gun for $612, but I am having second thoughts now about the price. I will obviously try to offer less, but if that is not an option, is the $612 to much for this gun?

It is S&W 586-3, blued 4inch with the box and is supposed to be in excellent condition. I have been looking for this kind of gun. So I am not really trying to get a great price as much as I am trying to get a FAIR price.






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Old September 10, 2012, 04:29 PM   #2
freebird72
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The box.


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Old September 10, 2012, 04:50 PM   #3
Tom Servo
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Ask him if it's been reblued. That pitting under the logo in the 4th picture looks a bit suspicious.

If so, it's worth far less.
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Old September 10, 2012, 04:57 PM   #4
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Something is hinky about the box.

Features:
TS-RR-WO

TS = Target stocks
RR = Red ramp front sight
WO = White outline rear sight

...none of which are present on the actual gun. Those are Combat stocks, an uncommon and interesting feature if original, but if not original, not so much.

The serial on the gun is not visible due to the Combats- does the serial actually match the box? In the days of Fleabay, IMHO you should NOT pay much of a premium for a non-original S&W box; $40-$50 tops.

Also, there appear to be dimples/scratches below the cylinder release latch and some finish wear on the cylinder; this indicates VG or VG+, NOT "Excellent". [EDIT: I just read Tom Servo's post and looked at the picture again; I agree, this could be reblued pitting, maybe not, but if so, WARNING WILL ROBINSON, this gun is only worth $300ish as a shooter, collector value is ZERO.]

Given the ordinary 4" barrel length, this seems like a $450-$475 gun to me- less if the gun had the options listed on the box, but they have been swapped out and the original parts lost.

Sorry.
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Old September 10, 2012, 04:58 PM   #5
freebird72
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I was wondering about the 4th pic myself, but I do not know how to tell if a gun has been re-blued. I sent an email asking. What makes you think it has been?

Also, from the questions I have already asked him, he said the original owner is dead.
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Old September 10, 2012, 05:10 PM   #6
freebird72
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Think you Tom and Carguychris. After reading both of your post, as I believe you both have more knowledge than me, I closed the haggling option and walked away. I want to think you both for stopping me from making a mistake.

I one day hope to be knowledgeable as both of you on these types of guns.
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Old September 10, 2012, 05:15 PM   #7
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Hmmm... how did the original owner get "dead?"

Tacky humor, mea culpa.

A la the box question, I'd at least get him to send you a photo of gun with the cylinder open and the serial number clearly visible.

All in all, you $100 fro a NIB gun. Sketchy.
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Old September 10, 2012, 05:41 PM   #8
Deaf Smith
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Ask for more photos.

The ONLY gun I have bought over the net, Guns America, I contacted the seller and he gladly sent me the photos (and the angles of the photos) I wanted. And what he claimed matched what I got!

Deaf
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Old September 10, 2012, 05:43 PM   #9
Tom Servo
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Quote:
WARNING WILL ROBINSON, this gun is only worth $300ish as a shooter, collector value is ZERO.
Actually, I'd value it at less than that. If it's been reblued by the factory, or by someone who knows what they're doing, it retains some value.

However, if one is to reblue (or renickel) a gun, the first step should be a thorough polishing job. If the pitting is still visible, they didn't do that. It's likely there's pitting hidden elsewhere, too.

Collector's tip: Smith doesn't blue or nickel triggers or hammers. If you see a gun with those parts, it's a dead giveaway.
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Old September 10, 2012, 06:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Something is hinky about the box.

Features:
TS-RR-WO

TS = Target stocks
RR = Red ramp front sight
WO = White outline rear sight
Great catch Chris!
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Old September 10, 2012, 06:06 PM   #11
freebird72
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Once again, I want to think all of you for the help. This is the EXACT reason I come here, because most of you know so much and are willing to help. I am just glad I did not win the bid originally.

If I ever want to bid on a gun online again, I will be sure to ask here first. Thanks all
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Old September 10, 2012, 08:52 PM   #12
Deaf Smith
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Careful freebird...

We might bid on it to!

Hahaha.

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Old September 10, 2012, 08:57 PM   #13
freebird72
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Ok Deaf, after reading the post on this thread, you can be my quest.
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Old September 10, 2012, 10:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Actually, I'd value it at less than that.
Actually, I agree. The edit was written in haste. I meant to write $200ish and hit the wrong key.

OTOH I've never personally seen an L frame in such bad condition that it actually sold for less than $300, but there's a first time for everything.
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Old September 10, 2012, 10:58 PM   #15
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I just received an email from the guy, and he says he will sell the gun now for $500 plus shipping. He says the gun is all original, but I believe Carguychris nailed it on the head.
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Old September 12, 2012, 02:43 AM   #16
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I noticed the guy has posted the gun again for auction. Should I warn other buyers of this gun? Or should I mind my own business?
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Old September 12, 2012, 08:49 AM   #17
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Don't worry about it, it's not that big of a deal.

It's somewhere between a $350 - $500 gun. Total difference in price is a couple of tanks of gas or a month or so of cable TV and internet to most people.

Let whoever gets it do the research they feel is appropriate and be happy with what they get.
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Old September 12, 2012, 06:06 PM   #18
MC 1911
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I guess I'm the odd man out on this one. Is it a fair price,yes! You bid on the gun,YOU bid against yourself (really??) knowing no one else was bidding,the guy agrees to sell YOU the gun at the price YOU bid, and YOU back out.

You come on a Forum to ask if its a fair price,don't get the answers you want,then ask if you should warn other bidders about the gun.

If I misunderstood or stated something incorrectly,feel free to correct me. I think your actions speak for themselves. This of course,is my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.................................
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Old September 12, 2012, 06:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
I guess I'm the odd man out on this one. Is it a fair price,yes! You bid on the gun,YOU bid against yourself (really??) knowing no one else was bidding,the guy agrees to sell YOU the gun at the price YOU bid, and YOU back out.
He didn't back out as the reserve price was never met. He is under no obligation at that point to go through with the purchase.

I also think the gun is over priced. As a shooter, cosmetic condition doesn't seem that important to me if the price is right.

As a comparison, I sold a nickel model 19-5 this week in great condition with the box (and it did have the TS, RR, WO) for $375. I tried for more for over a year and couldn't get it.
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:09 PM   #20
MC 1911
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"He didn't back out as the reserve price was never met."

Obviously,when the seller agreed to his price,the reserve was null and void. I believe the OP stated what transpired very clearly. He had second thoughts and backed out which is his right. I just don't agree with it.

Like I said,opinions,everybody has one doesn't make them right or wrong!
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:22 PM   #21
Joe_Pike
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Quote:
Obviously,when the seller agreed to his price,the reserve was null and void. I believe the OP stated what transpired very clearly. He had second thoughts and backed out which is his right. I just don't agree with it.
I believe the auction had ended without the reserve price being met. The seller then contacted the OP and offered to sell him the gun for the OP's last bid. On Ebay they call this a "Second Chance Offer" and you are under no obligation to go through with the purchase at that point.
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:34 PM   #22
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MC 1911, apparently you are not familiar with GunBroker, or else you didn't read the OP carefully.

Re: GunBroker, if bids do not meet the reserve price, then the highest bid is not binding on either the bidder nor the seller. This auction ended with the reserve not met, so no binding sale was made.

Re: the rest of the OP, the seller then emailed the OP with a counter-offer, which the OP has considered but did not agree to. Since that time, the OP has learned from posters in this thread that the gun does not appear to have been accurately represented in the ad.

Your opinion on this seems to be that one-sided contracts are somehow binding, and that lying in an ad should not factor into the decision making process.

Perhaps you should ask the OP for the seller's info, so you can buy the misrepresented weapon at a stupid price.

One last thing - had the OP won the auction, but found out upon receipt that the gun did not match the box, and that it had also apparently been re-blued, he could have demanded the seller buy back the gun. Management at GunBroker would most likely back up the buyer, at least to the extent of banning the seller from listing more items.

So please tell us again how the OP fails to meet your ethical standard?
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:49 PM   #23
MC 1911
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I just have a different set of values. If I give someone a price I'm willing to pay and they agree,I buy it. Kind of like me giving my word on something.

I do my research before hand & pay what I feel is a fair price. I do not go online and ask people what they think. I trust my own judgement right or wrong.

In 50 years I've never been disappointed. Of course I may have lowered my expectations in several cases LOL!!
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:55 PM   #24
MLeake
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MC 1911, by using the Reserve Price function, the seller set up the incomplete sale. He did it to prevent a sale he would not have found acceptable; it is a double edged sword.

And, like I said, the seller very likely would have had to take the gun back, and eaten additional shipping costs.

As far as doing research before-hand, as this is now a separate transaction, that is exactly what the OP is doing.
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Old September 12, 2012, 08:01 PM   #25
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In my opinion the price is to high. Even with the box I would not pay over $475.00. I have never paid over $400 plus tax for a shoot grade L frame.
Good luck,
Howard
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