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Old January 31, 2012, 01:15 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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If not hollow-points, then what ammo for SD?

If you choose not to use hollow-points, but opt for another profile, what would you choose.

I anticipate that the calibre will dictate the answer somewhat so lets offer 3:
9mm Luger, because I have one (presently FMJ)
.44 Mag, because I have one (presently SJSP)
.45 ACP because it seems very popular and is between the two above in ballistics

So which bullet type and why?
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Old January 31, 2012, 01:28 PM   #2
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I want hollow points because that is what local LE uses: They deem them to be the best for personal defense, which is the object of the excercise.

Barring HP's, I want something that expands as a HP would, like Pow'R Ball or EFMJ.....
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Old January 31, 2012, 01:46 PM   #3
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Lead SWCs. I know they work, I've shot everything from snakes, coyotes, dogs, up to and including Moose and Buffalo.

They work.
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Old January 31, 2012, 01:52 PM   #4
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If not hollow-points, then what ammo for SD?

Instead of a Hornady TAP (hollow point), I now use the Hornady Critical Defense in my CC. It is closed to an insert point that allows the bullet to penetrate cloth and bone before opening. It was developed in colaboration of the CIA.
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Old January 31, 2012, 02:15 PM   #5
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In my opinion and research, I'm always looking at the size and length of the permanent wound cavity. Bigger the better. If you look around the forums a bit there are a couple of threads discussing the use of full wad cutters (albeit 38 specials) as self defense ammunition. Very interesting links.

I really don't plan on hollow points opening up at pistol velocities. Even the best hollow points have failures depending on circumstances and obstacles. I believe it is first and foremost shot placement, then the damage and hemorrhaging done in the permanent wound cavity.

If the premise is no hollow points, I'd use the biggest, most blunt profile that will run the gun. In an auto, that is more challenging. I can use semi wad cutters in my 45 ACP guns and they do leave a nice neat hole. And, I'm sure that I could get my 9MM Glock to run a semi wad cutter as well. I just never have tried. The revolvers will shoot anything, the flattest meplat profile I could find (Keith type semi wad cutters and the like).

Since I don't have to limit myself to non hollow point ammo, I use Speer Gold Dot hollow points for all of my carry ammunition, generally speaking.

I'm guessing your question is because where you live hollow point ammo is forbidden or amazingly expensive?
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Old January 31, 2012, 02:28 PM   #6
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It depends, if possible I'd rather use some sort of ballistic tipped bullet. But if it's smaller ammo, then I'd use lead tipped ammo. Yes, hollow points can do more damage but what if it's winter and they are wearing a lot of heavy clothes, how well is that .22 gonna do with hollowpoints?
I have a friend who keeps all of revolvers loaded in his house. He has every other bullet fmj and every other bullet a hollow point. So far, the only invader of his property has been a possum he shot with a .44 mag, but the idea is good.
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Old January 31, 2012, 02:30 PM   #7
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Anything but round nose,,,

Flat nose FMJ is a better choice than any round nose bullet.

Round nose bullets have a tendency to simply push tissue aside,,,
Any kind of flattened surface will cut body tissue better.

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Old January 31, 2012, 02:35 PM   #8
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Made my choice a long time ago, for soft skinned two legged dirt bag who wants to hurt my family or me and take my stuff it is LSWC in any of my defensive handguns. 38 spcl, .357, 41 mag, 44 spcl or 44 mag.

That being said if I had something else in the gun at the time whatever it was in those calibers it would still ruin his day. More worried about where to hit him and less with what I hit him with.
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Old January 31, 2012, 02:37 PM   #9
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Flat point if semi-auto or wadcutter if revolver... .45 ACP, 9mm, .357 Mag, .44 Spc, .44 Mag... just nothing smaller than .38 Spc for me.
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Old January 31, 2012, 02:39 PM   #10
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I use these http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=220
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Old January 31, 2012, 02:50 PM   #11
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I choose to use JHPs because they're the most effective and I would never choose anything else unless I'm outdoors and worried about bears.

If I were not allowed to have JHPs I would wove because that state is obviously run by crackpots. And finally to cover the way-out-there-just-because hypothetical scenario, If for whatever reason JHPs were not an option I would get a .45acp with expanding FMJ.
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Old January 31, 2012, 03:41 PM   #12
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
I'm guessing your question is because where you live hollow point ammo is forbidden or amazingly expensive?
Yup!

It's the former!

I'm going to start looking up all these abbreviations!!
FMJ, I know... but the rest...
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Old January 31, 2012, 04:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
...worried about bears
Ahh, here we go again!
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Old January 31, 2012, 04:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Ahh, here we go again!
I had gone as far as I intended to with that comment. Unless I need deep penetration I stick to JHP ammo.
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Old January 31, 2012, 04:53 PM   #15
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FMJ because that is the NATO round that military uses. More militarys use it for self defence than police have used HP.
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Old January 31, 2012, 04:58 PM   #16
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My semis I use FMJ the revolver 357 or 44mag soft nose semi jacketed, goes deep and will expand a little.
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Old January 31, 2012, 05:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
I had gone as far as I intended to with that comment.
@ bigghoss: sorry, just having a little fun with you!
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Old January 31, 2012, 05:08 PM   #18
jglsprings
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lswc = lead semi wad cutter
lswchp = lead semi wad cutter hollow point
swc = semi wad cutter
jhp = jacketed hollow point
fmj = full metal jacket

look around over here... lots of info and links...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477141

hard cast blunt nosed - that is the ticket
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Old January 31, 2012, 06:00 PM   #19
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Master Blaster, the military uses FMJ for two reasons, Hague Convention of 1927 and cost.


Does Federal still make the Expanding Full Metal Jacket round? That's MADE for Jersey!
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Old January 31, 2012, 08:26 PM   #20
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Thanks armoredman. I just didn't have the strength to say it.
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Old January 31, 2012, 08:51 PM   #21
igousigloo
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I use LSWC in my Kimber Ultra Carry II, because that is what feeds reliably. HP jam every once in awhile.
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Old January 31, 2012, 08:55 PM   #22
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Thanks Armoredman, you beat me to it.
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Old January 31, 2012, 09:12 PM   #23
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When I get the opportunity I intend to try soft lead FP or SWC with paper patch. Seriously.

mike
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Old January 31, 2012, 09:20 PM   #24
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The HP in LSWCHP stands for Hollow Point so if hollow points are forbidden then Lead Semi-Wad Cutter Hollow Points would also be covered by that ban right?

And Hollow points with a plug in them are sill hollow points I think...

So if no hollow points, I'm guessing LSWCs would be next on my list...
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Old January 31, 2012, 09:21 PM   #25
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Buffalo bore makes some 44mag "anti-personal" wad cutters, I bet they would put a hurtin on someone.
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