The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 16, 2012, 07:38 AM   #1
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
MAS 36/51

Wandering through the LGS yesterday I encountered a MAS 36/51. Nice looking rifle over all, looks to be unissued condition. Bore looks new as does the bolt. 150 bones later I had it home and starting searching for info. Made in early 1953, it has all the proper markings and is 'as new'. NOW, to find some 7.5 french ammo. Post war2 production, but it well fill the French slot for the war2 collection.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old August 16, 2012, 08:42 AM   #2
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
Always has amazed me just how long the MAS 36 was manufactured and how long it soldiered on as a front line rifle for the French military.

The French national police were still carrying them (and MAT 49 submachine guns) when I was in France in the early 1980s.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 16, 2012, 04:13 PM   #3
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 1,447
Graff & Sons was selling boxer brass for the MAS 36 a few years ago. You can redo 6.5x55 brass and it will work. (Better check that, it was a long time ago when I made it.)
Gunplummer is offline  
Old August 17, 2012, 08:07 AM   #4
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
After more research I find I have a straight Mle 1936 and not the 36-51. I found a guy a few hours away that has pallets of 7.5 French surplus.





madcratebuilder is offline  
Old August 17, 2012, 10:09 AM   #5
tater134
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2009
Location: NE,PA
Posts: 390
Nice find! I think you'll be really happy with the rifle. I sold mine a few years ago and I've always regretted it.
tater134 is offline  
Old August 17, 2012, 10:59 AM   #6
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
One word of caution...

The MAS 36 has NO safety!

If there is a round in the chamber, the gun is ready to go.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 17, 2012, 09:15 PM   #7
BerdanSS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Location: to close to other houses
Posts: 921
I miss mine dearly It's was BRAND new...still wrapped in wax paper and twine when it was purchased, not a ding on it. It had the grenade launcher attachment and front leaf sight as well like the one pictured below. Enjoy, they are great shooters and one of the coolest little bolt guns out there. I pine for another every time I hear about one.


BerdanSS is offline  
Old August 18, 2012, 07:30 AM   #8
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
One word of caution...

The MAS 36 has NO safety!

If there is a round in the chamber, the gun is ready to go.
That had me going for an evening. I'm looking at the end of the bolt
I finally figured it just didn't have a safety. Confirmed that with more research. I read that troops would chamber a round and leave the bolt unlocked as a makeshift safety.

I'm pleased with the quality of the MAS, much nicer than I anticipated.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old August 27, 2012, 06:33 AM   #9
m.p.driver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 552
Bought one years ago and after shooting it traded it off.Didn't like the sights,lack of safety,and it just didn't feel right.Hard to believe the french used it as the basis for their sniper rifles, probably to this day.Did keep a Mas 49,and a 49-56.
m.p.driver is offline  
Old August 29, 2012, 06:27 AM   #10
akguy1985
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2012
Location: Claremore, Oklahoma
Posts: 179
I picked one up last month thats a regular mas 36. Its in excellent condition.
__________________
Marksman of the mezzanine
akguy1985 is offline  
Old August 29, 2012, 08:22 PM   #11
indy1919
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2011
Posts: 277
Does anyone know why the unusual feature of no safety on this guy, I have one.. A really nice Bolt action rifle.. Was this some kind of innovative feature?????
indy1919 is offline  
Old August 29, 2012, 10:06 PM   #12
Pukindog
Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2009
Posts: 82
MAS 36

The reason the rifle has no safety is that French troops were taught that the rifle was to be kept empty until needed. Seems to me when that time came it was already too late.

Jeff
Pukindog is offline  
Old August 29, 2012, 10:25 PM   #13
Tikirocker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2007
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 915
The MAS is a lovely rifle, I have yet to snag one myself, congrats.

As to the often parroted derision of the French fighting man in 1940, people would do well to remember that Germany had been preparing for war for 10 years already, and sucker punched just about every European nation at that time. Once everybody knew it was on, I'd say the French Marquis ( resistance ) did a sterling job of giving Jerry hell. Blitzkrieg means "lightning war" ... Hitler wasn't sending out a memo to anyone.

Tiki.
__________________
The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27
Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

Last edited by Tikirocker; August 30, 2012 at 09:33 AM.
Tikirocker is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 08:46 AM   #14
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
As far as I know, French rifles, until the adoption of semi-autos, never had safety mechanisms.

They were designed to be carried chamber empty, magazine full. It was apparently felt that cycling the bolt to load the rifle when needed was far preferable to carrying around a rifle with a loaded chamber, even one with a safety.

Probably some validity to that theory.

Two things about French military history:

1. Sure, those funny "never fired, dropped once" oneliners are "funny," pretty much in the same way that your buddy getting hit in the groin with a football is "funny."

But, they don't have much basis in reality. While I'm not a particular fan of the French, I'm more than willing to have a discusion on the quality of the French as military personnel, because in general, they don't have a lot to be ashamed of.

2. The next person who comes across with one of those 'oh so humorous statements on French military prowess'?

I promise you I will chuckle you as I ban you from farther participation at TFL.

I promise.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 11:10 AM   #15
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
I'd like to remind readers here that the Germans had over 157,000 casualties in the Invasion of France, which lasted just over six weeks, as well as about 1200 aircraft and 800 tanks lost in action. It was hardly a walkover. In comparison, the Germans had only 50,000 casualties in the Invasion of Poland, of which about 16,000 were killed.

The father of one our employees here served in the French Army in WWII. He is Senagalese.

The MAS 36, while not the last bolt action military rifle to be manufactured, was probably the last to be designed. It did not replace all the other rifles by the start of the war, which among other things, meant an infantry squad might be using weapons using two different rifle cartridges. It was also not issued overseas by the start of the war. Even after the war, older weapons continued in use in places for another ten years or so.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 01:01 PM   #16
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
The 36 was the last bolt action rifle to be adopted as a standard service arm by any major power.

By the outbreak of war, the entire French army had been rearmed with rifles in 7.5x54 caliber. In that sense they did better than the Italians or the Japanese in getting new arms online.

Many of those rifles, however, were modified, rebarreled Betherier rifles in which the Mannlicher packet clip was replaced with a staggered, 5 round Mauser style magazine.

Moderately successful.

Troops from the colonies, however, including the Senegalese and Algerians, as well as the Foreign Legion, hadn't been rearmed and many were still carrying the 1886 Lebel rifle.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 02:57 PM   #17
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
This reminds me of a couple of things related to French weapons.

Some of the Berthier carbines were marked with a very elaborate script that I noticed on one I examined at the old Potomac Arms in Alexandria, Virginia, several years ago on some nice Saturday morning. They had a number of artillery pieces on hand, too, that had been there as long as I'd been visiting the place, probably 30 years by then. The store was right on the Potomac River and was prone to flooding periodically. The building was elevated (for other reasons besides just avoiding the water) but the parkng lot and all those interesting little artillery pieces frequently got soaked.

While waiting around for the store to open, I was looking at the guns, which included a 7.5 cm German Infantry gun, a few Italian anti-tank gun as well as a couple of French 25mm anti-tank guns. One of the French guns was manufactured just a month or so before the invasion in 1940. I thought to myself, the next time I came by, I would bring things to make a rubbing of the interesting inscription. Well, the next time I came by, whenever that was, they were gone. After having sat on the lot probably for over 40 years, someone had bought the whole lot and they were gone!.

He who hesitates, well, you know, can't make a rubbing from a French anti-tank gun.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 04:50 PM   #18
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
I'm not 100% sure, but I think all of the Betherier guns, rifles and carbines, were marked with that elaborate script, which was stamped.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 05:59 PM   #19
indy1919
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2011
Posts: 277
Why no safety on the Mas

From Pukindog

"The reason the rifle has no safety is that French troops were taught that the rifle was to be kept empty until needed. Seems to me when that time came it was already too late."

THanks Pukindog

Well I did not know that,.. So I am French Soldier Laying in ambush.. So does anyone know did French Doctrine say Crank a round in a keep your finger off the trigger till the enemy enters the ambush.. Or crank a round in at the time of firing??????
indy1919 is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 08:15 PM   #20
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 3,076
The problem with French troops in 1940 is the same problem our troops had in Vietnam-bad leaders.
One design feature of the MAS 1936 is the rear sight has no windage adjustements, they were made by installing a new peep sight with the correct amount of offset. The screws on the front band require a special screwdriver, it's fairly easy to make your own.
Neither the Lebel nor the Mannlicher-Berthier which preceded the M1936 in French service had safeties, the version I read said they thought safeties led to a false sense of security.
SIGSHR is offline  
Old September 2, 2012, 12:26 PM   #21
MJ1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2008
Posts: 327
;(

I was in the Ahn Khe pass in 1968 and there was a small plot of ground with a lot of white stones, it was the burial ground for Group Mobile 100 of the French Army who had died almost to a man in 1954. Can't give much more than that.

__________________
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading"
--Unknown Soldier--
Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid.
- David Hackworth -
MJ1 is offline  
Old September 2, 2012, 11:51 PM   #22
raftman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,889
Quote:
The 36 was the last bolt action rifle to be adopted as a standard service arm by any major power.
I thought that distinction belonged to Ishapore Enfields in 7.62x51?
__________________
"My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate
If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."
raftman is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 06:33 AM   #23
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
The Ishapore Enfield was a modification of an existing design.

The MAS 36 was a whole new design.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 07:42 AM   #24
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 1,056
what about the danish madson in 3006. eastbank.
eastbank is offline  
Old September 3, 2012, 02:26 PM   #25
DoctorXring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2002
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 389
.

The Madsen was the last new bolt design that was intended for
service (in Columbia). I have read conflicting reports as to whether
they were ever issued.


dxr

.

Last edited by DoctorXring; September 3, 2012 at 03:12 PM.
DoctorXring is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13750 seconds with 9 queries