Pre-breakin new barrel cleaning

FLChinook · September 10, 2012, 02:07 PM

I just acquired a new Weatheby Fibermark with SS barrel. I've never cleaned a new barrel before but it seems to be recommended so I did this time. The picture shows the patches used.

Cleaning started with the top left patch (Bore Tech Eliminator); BTE was used for all patches in the top row with the last one left to soak for 10 min. Middle row is clean patches, starting left. Bottom row is just a final patch of Kroil/Hoppes.

I understand that blue in the patch represents copper and am very surprised by these results. I did not repeat the process with BTE but I could if needed.

Can anyone comment on these results? Thanks

Sweet Shooter · September 10, 2012, 03:30 PM

Does this rifle have iron sights? If so maybe there were a few (more than usual) rounds put through for the purpose of zeroing... doesn't this model have an MOA guarantee? It looks like the gun was shot a lot. Perhaps they had issues on testing. Does the gun look otherwise new?

-SS-

Strafer Gott · September 10, 2012, 03:31 PM

I have seen similar discoloration while polishing stainless. I thought it was from the nickel alloyed in to make stainless. The copper patch looks a slightly different hue, a bit greener, IMHO.

FLChinook · September 10, 2012, 03:51 PM

I just talked with Jessie at Bore Tech and he says this result is completely common. He said that Weatherby typically fires 3 to 5 rounds through every new gun and can fire as many as 25. I would hope not 25 as this would suggest a problem of some type...

Anyway, these rounds fired at the factory are essentially "barrel breaking" firings and they always have the most copper fouling (according to Jessie).

I will do a few more cycles of cleaning with BTE; hopefully, each will show less blue residue than the previous. I'll report back.

BTW, I was using the new Bore Tech jag which looks like brass but is an alloy (softer than SS) not susceptible to leaching copper.

FrosSsT · September 10, 2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

I would hope not 25 as this would suggest a problem of some type...

Not neccessarily. I've had to shoot around that many to get where I wanted to get with some rifles. It is not always the rifle.

FLChinook · September 10, 2012, 11:03 PM

I've now gone through 8 cycles of running a patch with BTE, letting it set at least an hour, running a clean patch to collect copper residue, and finally running another wet patch with BTE.

The clean patches ARE finally coming out with less blue, although it took six cycles to see any reduction. I'll probably run one more cycle tonight and leave one wet run in the barrel overnight.

Then, no matter what I find, it's off to the range to break in the barrel.

I sure never expected to see so much copper in a new SS barrel...

timelinex · September 12, 2012, 12:50 AM

Is there a reason you are trying to get your bore clean down to bare metal? If you ask me, they did you a favor by filling in the imperfections a little with copper. Now you have to waste your own ammunition doing it all over again.

On a side note, get some Wipe-out. You spray the foam in there, leave it for a half hour and then wipe it out. If you want it down to bare metal just do this twice and your done.

Scorch · September 12, 2012, 01:03 AM

Since we are talking about a new rifle, I would guess the copper green on the patches is from the bore brush you used. Yep, copper solvents dissolve any copper they come in contact with, including brushes and jags.

As far as the others, looks OK. Don't sweat it too much. Remember, if it shoots good, it doesn't matter how dirty it is.

FLChinook · September 12, 2012, 01:12 AM

I'm not sure I agree. I put a post in the thread "Copper removal no longer recommended?" giving the details but basically I think a new, unlapped barrel needs some number of bullets fired (and the copper cleaned) before the barrel is properly conditioned such that it can then be allowed to retain copper in a beneficial way. Retaining copper before this conditioning candeals with the little imperfections in the barrel (which result from the manufacturing process) may disrupt the conditioning process.

I've got no data to support this belief; it just makes sense to me...

Thanks

FLChinook · September 12, 2012, 01:15 AM

Re getting copper residue from the brush (or jag); not in this case. I'm using a fiber rod and a new BoreTech jag that protects from copper contamination.

There's no doubt that all the copper I found came from the barrel...

kraigwy · September 12, 2012, 08:33 AM

I must be missing something here. I judge my barrels based on how they shoot instead of what the cleaning patches look like.

My break in of any new barrels consist of sighting them in.

FLChinook · September 12, 2012, 12:49 PM

Kraig,

As I said, I've always "broken in" my rifles the way you do, by sighting them in at the range. But I've never paid this much for a rifle before and elected to take the extra effort (and it was effort!) to follow Weatherby's recommendations.

How much copper removal I work on after break-in will certainly be a function of how the gun is shooting.

Thanks

Achilles11B · September 13, 2012, 09:11 PM

I'm building a target AR with an 18" SS barrel, so I read this thread with great interest.

Then I saw Kraigwy's post...

...and my course of action is clear.

The guy knows his stuff, I'd give his advice some consideration.

SIGSHR · September 13, 2012, 11:56 PM

The question of barrel break-in is something we will debate till the Crack of Doom and still not find The Answer. If there is one.

Tom68 · September 14, 2012, 11:19 AM

SIG, I agree: since barrels have such unique properties, one will never fully know the outcome had he "broken in" or not. That being said, some will ask the question "What can it hurt?", and take the extra time, effort, and expense to clean/shoot/clean/shoot...

FLChinook · September 14, 2012, 12:10 PM

Don't forget "cool"... That's shoot, clean, cool, sh... :-)

September 10, 2012, 11:03 PM	#6
FLChinook Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 284	Copper fouling in a new barrel??? I've now gone through 8 cycles of running a patch with BTE, letting it set at least an hour, running a clean patch to collect copper residue, and finally running another wet patch with BTE. The clean patches ARE finally coming out with less blue, although it took six cycles to see any reduction. I'll probably run one more cycle tonight and leave one wet run in the barrel overnight. Then, no matter what I find, it's off to the range to break in the barrel. I sure never expected to see so much copper in a new SS barrel...

September 12, 2012, 01:03 AM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 11,113	Since we are talking about a new rifle, I would guess the copper green on the patches is from the bore brush you used. Yep, copper solvents dissolve any copper they come in contact with, including brushes and jags. As far as the others, looks OK. Don't sweat it too much. Remember, if it shoots good, it doesn't matter how dirty it is. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services Taylor Machine

September 12, 2012, 08:33 AM	#11
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 8,700	I must be missing something here. I judge my barrels based on how they shoot instead of what the cleaning patches look like. My break in of any new barrels consist of sighting them in. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Oct '78 Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 13, 2012, 09:11 PM	#13
Achilles11B Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Posts: 588	I'm building a target AR with an 18" SS barrel, so I read this thread with great interest. Then I saw Kraigwy's post... ...and my course of action is clear. The guy knows his stuff, I'd give his advice some consideration. __________________ Good equipment will never be a substitute for good training.

September 10, 2012, 03:30 PM	#2
Sweet Shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2011 Posts: 399	Does this rifle have iron sights? If so maybe there were a few (more than usual) rounds put through for the purpose of zeroing... doesn't this model have an MOA guarantee? It looks like the gun was shot a lot. Perhaps they had issues on testing. Does the gun look otherwise new? -SS-

September 10, 2012, 03:31 PM	#3
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 893	I have seen similar discoloration while polishing stainless. I thought it was from the nickel alloyed in to make stainless. The copper patch looks a slightly different hue, a bit greener, IMHO.

September 10, 2012, 03:51 PM	#4
FLChinook Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 284	I just talked with Jessie at Bore Tech and he says this result is completely common. He said that Weatherby typically fires 3 to 5 rounds through every new gun and can fire as many as 25. I would hope not 25 as this would suggest a problem of some type... Anyway, these rounds fired at the factory are essentially "barrel breaking" firings and they always have the most copper fouling (according to Jessie). I will do a few more cycles of cleaning with BTE; hopefully, each will show less blue residue than the previous. I'll report back. BTW, I was using the new Bore Tech jag which looks like brass but is an alloy (softer than SS) not susceptible to leaching copper.

September 12, 2012, 12:50 AM	#7
timelinex Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2011 Posts: 214	Is there a reason you are trying to get your bore clean down to bare metal? If you ask me, they did you a favor by filling in the imperfections a little with copper. Now you have to waste your own ammunition doing it all over again. On a side note, get some Wipe-out. You spray the foam in there, leave it for a half hour and then wipe it out. If you want it down to bare metal just do this twice and your done.

September 12, 2012, 01:12 AM	#9
FLChinook Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 284	I'm not sure I agree. I put a post in the thread "Copper removal no longer recommended?" giving the details but basically I think a new, unlapped barrel needs some number of bullets fired (and the copper cleaned) before the barrel is properly conditioned such that it can then be allowed to retain copper in a beneficial way. Retaining copper before this conditioning candeals with the little imperfections in the barrel (which result from the manufacturing process) may disrupt the conditioning process. I've got no data to support this belief; it just makes sense to me... Thanks

September 12, 2012, 01:15 AM	#10
FLChinook Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 284	Re getting copper residue from the brush (or jag); not in this case. I'm using a fiber rod and a new BoreTech jag that protects from copper contamination. There's no doubt that all the copper I found came from the barrel...

September 12, 2012, 12:49 PM	#12
FLChinook Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 284	Kraig, As I said, I've always "broken in" my rifles the way you do, by sighting them in at the range. But I've never paid this much for a rifle before and elected to take the extra effort (and it was effort!) to follow Weatherby's recommendations. How much copper removal I work on after break-in will certainly be a function of how the gun is shooting. Thanks

September 13, 2012, 11:56 PM	#14
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 2,628	The question of barrel break-in is something we will debate till the Crack of Doom and still not find The Answer. If there is one.

September 14, 2012, 11:19 AM	#15
Tom68 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 136	SIG, I agree: since barrels have such unique properties, one will never fully know the outcome had he "broken in" or not. That being said, some will ask the question "What can it hurt?", and take the extra time, effort, and expense to clean/shoot/clean/shoot...

September 14, 2012, 12:10 PM	#16
FLChinook Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 284	Don't forget "cool"... That's shoot, clean, cool, sh... :-)