The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 19, 2014, 06:44 AM   #1
SansSouci
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2013
Location: Heart of Reagan Country
Posts: 230
A Preference Change?

I've never had an aversion to revolvers. I do not believe that, for practical applications, man stopper cartridges exist. I do believe that for self-defense application, a good-quality semiauto reigns supreme. I do believe that John Moses Browning's magnum opus has not been surpassed.

I used to own a 586 that was manufactured when S&W had gone though its junk stage. That was the worst handgun I've ever owned. It had to go back to the factory at least twice due to malfunctions causing it to fail to fire. I gave it away. I thought that I was finished with revolvers for self-defense. But something happened. I don't know what it was.

A subtle change descended upon me. I bought an alloy 4" GP-100 for use as a back country trout fishing weapon. There are huge bear in the Eastern Sierra. I figured that since its intended purpose is a work gun, I wouldn't shed tears were it to show working gun wear.

For some undefined reason, I've begun reaching for it more & more often. I bought a pair of Hogue capped tulipwood grips sans checkering. Now I'm trying to figure out how I can make it my primary self-defense gun; however, I seriously doubt that it could supplant my .40 S&W Sig P-229. But it might.

I still believe that there are many self-defense cartridges that are superior to the .357 Mag. I doubt if a gun that's more reliable than my P-229 exists. But for an undefined reason, I am really taking a shine to my GP-100. I think that Ruger's simplicity of design (modular system) has a lot to do with why I like that gun. That and it balances perfectly. But then again, I've always thought that 4" .357 Mag Revolvers balance better than other barrel lengths.

Were Ruger to manufacture a .41 Rem Mag on a GP-100 frame or were Ruger to manufacture a standard (I do not like Ruger's Super Redhawk guns.) Redhawk in .41 Rem Mag, I'd own two Rugers.
SansSouci is offline  
Old June 19, 2014, 06:53 AM   #2
1stmar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,302
I don't think there is any question of a 357 magnums capability as a man stopper or self defense cartridge.
1stmar is offline  
Old June 19, 2014, 07:13 AM   #3
txpossum
Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2014
Posts: 31
Hopefully this will never happen, but if I were ever limited to one handgun, it would be a .357 revolver. It's not my favorite (the 1911 occupies that position), but, imo, it is the most versatile of all handguns.

I would not in any way feel disadvantaged carrying a good revolver for a self defense gun. Although my usual carry gun is an automatic, sometimes I reach for my Smith Model 19 just for the pleasure of carrying it.
txpossum is offline  
Old June 19, 2014, 07:45 AM   #4
SansSouci
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2013
Location: Heart of Reagan Country
Posts: 230
txpossum,

I will agree that the .357 Mag is extremely versatile.
SansSouci is offline  
Old June 19, 2014, 07:52 AM   #5
SansSouci
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2013
Location: Heart of Reagan Country
Posts: 230
1stmar,

Were I to carry my GP-100 for bipedal vermin, I'd load it with 158 grain LSWC .38 Special +P (FBI load).

The .357 Mag has a disorienting muzzle blast. I'd hate to shoot one in a confined space such as a bedroom. It also has blinding muzzle flash, not a good thing were a bad guy shooting at me. Finally, excessive recoil of the .357 Mag causes it to become difficult to retain sight picture; again, not good were a bad guy to be shooting at me.

The reality is there ain't a whole lot of difference in terms of bipedal defense between the FBI .38 Special load & .357 Mag load.

I do like the .357 Mag. It is extremely versatile. Loaded with 180 grain Partitions at 1100-1200 FPS, 6 of 'em would entice a marauding black bear to reconsider its dining options. When I fish with my kids in the Eastern Sierra where black bears are more numerous than liberals in San Francisco, I have parental responsibility to protect them, and I will protect them.
SansSouci is offline  
Old June 19, 2014, 07:22 PM   #6
1stmar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,302
IMO the adrenaline will overcome any muzzle blast or recoil concerns you have. Night vision aside. If you are in a confined room I don't expect they will be well aimed shots, you likely won't even have the gun eye level. There are numerous loads you can test or research to find one with reduced muzzle blast. A lot has to do w the length of barrel. If you are comfortable with it, use it. I don't see any advantage a 41mag would provide. If recoil and muzzle blast really concerns you, use 38sp plus p for in home defense and 357 for anything else
1stmar is offline  
Old June 19, 2014, 10:14 PM   #7
Andy Blozinski
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2013
Posts: 162
I was packing a Walther PPS in 9mm. I picked up a 4" barrel Chiappa White Rhino and found my pistol. It shoots .38s or .357 magnums pretty much the same. No excessive recoil issues. I just sent it out to get the trigger lightened and I think I might not need another pistol after this one.
Andy Blozinski is offline  
Old June 19, 2014, 10:26 PM   #8
skizzums
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2013
Location: Douglasville, Ga
Posts: 2,064
i dont feel comfortble using 5-6 rounds to protect my home, my brother got robbed by two armed people in the late morning and i always worry if i could take down 2 people with 5 shots in a stressful situation. that being said, for the range i prefer a revolver, they are accurate, fun, extremely versatile and i dont have to chase brass. i love being able to shoot any bullet shape that the mold companies can come up with and being able to make the lightest plinking loads with having to worry about cycling the action(wax bullets!!!).i just think they are more fun to shoot, but i feel safer with a hi-cap semi-auto.
__________________
My head is bloody, but unbowed
skizzums is offline  
Old June 20, 2014, 03:04 PM   #9
Bezoar
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2004
Location: michigan
Posts: 578
well the op is easily answered.

you had a revovler that you did not like and never would be happy with. you got rid of it. and eventually got a new revolver from a different company that makes you happy.

Thats how it goes. as far as round count needed to defend yourself, well Mr jordan would simply say, use good ammo and hit the target.
Bezoar is offline  
Old June 20, 2014, 03:37 PM   #10
txpossum
Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2014
Posts: 31
I have never felt under-ammo'd carrying a revolver or a 1911 with seven rounds. If I can drop something or someone with that, I have no business shooting at it.
txpossum is offline  
Old June 20, 2014, 05:05 PM   #11
HungryHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 164
Not just you!

Thank God! I have a plethora of semi autos I've shot quite extensively. They all have great high capacity mags with nights sights and rails. I also have a loaner Ruger New Vaquero that my buddy lent me to try. Something about the cool factor and the way it points. The last week I've carried and shot the Ruger exclusively.

I realize the hypocrisy in carrying a pistol to be prepared so why carry one that limits the number of situations I'm prepared for, but lately I haven't wanted to carry anything else. I will purchase one soon and the idea of carrying it primarily has been rolled around often. I still never feel "undergunned." I'm sure some will think I'm living in fantasy land but it is something I often think about for now.
HungryHunter is offline  
Old June 20, 2014, 09:53 PM   #12
Andy Blozinski
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2013
Posts: 162
I'm reasonably accurate at 7 yards with the PPS. The range wants 2-3 seconds between shots. I have to set up 6 targets on the paper to slow myself down (change target with every shot) and even then I still fire too fast.
That being said, I just feel a lot more confident with my .357 magnum revolver. As long as I don't screw up and miss, I figure every shot is one messed up individual. I'd always figured I'd have to plow 2-3 rounds into someone with the 9mm, just to be sure.
My Rhino just got to the Chiappa place in Ohio today. They're supposed to drop the trigger pull from 12 pounds to 7 pounds for me. That thing is going to be a dream to shoot when it comes back.
Andy Blozinski is offline  
Old June 20, 2014, 11:33 PM   #13
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,934
In my experience, a .357 Magnum's blast isn't really all that different from a .40 S&W's if comparable loadings are used. This is because the external ballistics of the two cartridges are actually quite similar.

For example, a Remington 158gr .357 Magnum is advertised at 1235fps and 535fpe from a 4" barrel while a Remington 155gr .40 S&W is advertised at 1205fps and 499fpe from a 4" barrel. Likewise, a Remington 180gr .357 Magnum is advertised at 1145fps from an 8 3/8" barrel while a Remington 180gr .40 S&W is advertised at 1015fps from a 4" barrel. Given the longer test barrel of the 180gr .357, I'd expect the velocities to be roughly the same from a 4" revolver and service-size .40 like a Glock 22, Beretta 96, or S&W 4006.

The .357 Magnum's reputation for vicious blast likely comes primarily from the high-velocity 110gr and 125gr loadings which, from 4" barrels, will usually run 1400-1500fps. However, I would expect the higher velocity 135gr .40 S&W loadings to also have rather vicious blast.

What you do get from the .357 Magnum is, due to it being primarily a revolver round, the ability to use bullets not typically available in a semi-automatic. For hunting or wilderness defense, the .357 can use bullets with wide, flat noses that could cause feeding issues in a semi-automatic. Likewise, even with JHP ammunition, the Magnum can use semi-jacketed bullets with dead-soft lead noses that behave quite differently than most fully-jacketed semi-auto bullets.

As to your desire for a .41 Magnum, Ruger did in fact make the Redhawk in .41 Magnum in both 5 1/2 and 7 1/2" barrel lengths. While no longer made in that caliber, you can find one on the used market if you're willing to look long and hard enough (a local shop has had three in the last six months). Also, don't let one bad experience with S&W taint your opinion of the entire brand. The vast majority of S&W revolvers are excellent and fully the equal of Ruger in quality. S&W has offered several models of .41 Magnum over the years in a variety of barrel lengths, finishes, frame materials, and sight configurations. My recently-acquired Model 57 is as fine a revolver as I could ask for.

Another avenue would be to consider a revolver in .44 Magnum. For just about every revolver made in .41 Magnum, there is a comparable .44 Magnum that is nearly identical save for the caliber. Both cartridge generally require a large-frame revolver so size and weight will be roughly the same. The .44 Magnum, however, offers you a wider variety of guns and ammunition to choose from. Also, there are several lighter .44 Magnum loadings that are approximately the same power as a standard .41 Magnum and they're usually easier to find and cheaper (having recently acquired a .41 myself, I'm becoming well acquainted with the price and scarcity of ammo).

Finally, some of the top-end loadings in .357 Magnum approach or equal run-of-the-mill .41 Magnum ammunition. Boutique ammo houses including Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, Double Tap, and Underwood offer 180-200gr hardcast .357 Magnum loadings that compare favorably with mainstream .41 Magnum loads of comparable weight. While I wouldn't shoot these loadings in just any revolver, your GP100 is more than strong enough to digest as much of this ammo as your wrists and wallet can withstand.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old June 21, 2014, 10:52 AM   #14
Hook686
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2005
Location: USA The Great State of California
Posts: 1,971
Personally I go along with the 'Jello shooters' conclusion that the service calibers are all pretty equal when used with the right ammunition. That leaves the .357 (not a service caliber) at a different level. People that are fearful of the light and noise of the discharge never point out that it has the same effect on the bad guy as it may have on the good guy, only the good guy knows when it is coming. For me 8 shots (S&W 627), or 11 shots (DE XIX) of .357 magnum trump any other option I have here in California for a self defense handgun.
__________________
Hook686

When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.
Hook686 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10920 seconds with 9 queries