The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 9, 2012, 07:31 PM   #1
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
My 45 Long Colt cases have a slight bulge . Why?

9/9/12
First let me tell you that I looked for this exact problem on the forums but did not find the answer. Maybe I missed something but here goes..

I'm using RCBS dies # 19112. Carbide .45 cal Colt.
These are in a Hornady L-N-L progressive press @ station #1.

I measured the O.D. of the once fired "R P" ( Remington Peters) cases at the mouth prior to sizing and removing the primer. They are straight walled cases, and the measurements read 0.470 O.D. @ the mouth and 0.4735 O.D. @ the base.

I ran the case through the die and looked at it again and could see what appeared to be a very slight "bulge" at the base. I measured it and found that the base measured 0.474 but the mouth end now read 0.468. So I ran a few more dry and then tried just a touch of RCBS case lube and got the same results. The effort to run them did not change at all by the way.
So the mouth was now actually smaller than it had been, so the sizing step worked.
According to Hornady's Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 8th Edition page # 1007, the O.D. for this cartridge should be .480.

The I.D. that I'm getting is .454 before resizing and .446 after resizing. I know that when it gets to the expander die it will open up enough for a .452 cast bullet to be started, but I'm concerned about the slight bulge.

I'm assuming that the case is not totally being resized. The visible "Bulge" starts 0.398" from the bottom edge of the case. This would make me believe that the case is only going 0.876" into the die.
The O.A. length is now 1.2835" so the case stretched a bit. Before sizing it measured 1.269".

O.K. that's a lot of fine measuring but from what I can gather, the sizing step is making the case longer and the O.D. is getting thinner making the base look fatter (it's not really- it just looks that way).

Is this what should be happening? Should the case be completely resized top to bottom or is it O.K. to have about 3/4" of it resized and call it a day?

I know that I've got the die installed properly and it's tight in the press. It's adjusted per RCBS instructions.

If any of you have had a similar situation, please let me know. If I ever figure out how to post a photo, I'll put one up to show what I'm referring to.

I have not shot any of these rounds yet. As soon as I do, I'll post a follow up.

Thanks,
Keats
Arizona
Keats is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 08:07 PM   #2
Sport45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Too close to Houston
Posts: 4,069
Welcome to The Firing Line!

It's okay. Wait until you fire it an a typically large .45 Colt chamber.

Then it will be bigger just above the base.

What you are seeing is common for .45 Colt. Once you seat a bullet you will probably be able to tell where the base is by looking for the bottom of the bulge.
__________________
Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.
Sport45 is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 12:21 AM   #3
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
I suppose your right. The more I think about it, the more I believe that perhaps the 1st firing of these rounds caused the case to expand a little and with me sizing them, it's squeezing the case down a bit.
As long as this is for my wheel gun, I doubt that it will make a difference. I loaded up a batch for a friend of mine to use in his Henry 45 rifle. So far he has not told me that he encountered and problems. I know that he used some in his Judge revolver and they were O.K.

We'll see...

Thanks for the reply.
Keats
Arizona
Keats is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 08:29 AM   #4
SL1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2007
Posts: 2,001
.45 Colt is noted for having a wide variety of chamber dimensions. When shot in a gun with a large chamber, the cases can expand down near the case head, beyond where many carbide sizing dies touch the brass.

That should be OK if the brass is going back into the same gun after it is reloaded. But, it can cause problems if it goes instead to another gun with significantly tighter chambers.

So, if you are shooting your loads in something with tight chambers (perhaps a Ruger) and you give some reloads to a friend who is shooting them in a gun with a much looser chamber (perhaps one of the Colts or a lever gun), HE may not find any problem shooting them. But, when you get your brass back from him and reload it, you could find that you can't shoot it in YOUR gun, while he can still use it in his.

Some dies are better than others at sizing the bulges in the bases of .45 cases. There was an article in a recent edition of Handloader Magazine that talked about this. One of the dies that I remember was supposed to do a good job fixing the .45 Colt bulge problem was the Lee carbide die. One of the reasons that the bulge is hard to get sized is that many die manufacturers have started recessing their carbide rings so that they cannot contact the press and be cracked. And, dies that are "optimized" for progressive reloading presses also have more taper in the carbide section's mouth tho aid in rapid feeding of cases in the progressive machines.

SL1
SL1 is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 11:23 AM   #5
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
That makes sense. The reloads for my friend was a one time proposition. He provided me with the new pre-primed cases and the lead bullets. I ran them through the sizing die without the deprimer pin installed and I did not notice the "bulge".
So I'm guessing that with my once used cases, the previous firing caused the so called bulge and resizing / depriming made the bulge noticeable.

I'm going to try a few brand new cases just to see if I have the same situation or whether it's limited to once fires brass.

As for firing them, they are strictly for my S&W wheel gun so they should be reusable for a while.

Thanks for the reply..
Keats
Arizona
Keats is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 02:55 PM   #6
Walkalong
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2007
Location: Al.
Posts: 194
Does it look like this .45 Colt round?



The slight bulge lets you know you have good neck tension.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Medium Roll Crimp on a .45 Colt 265 Gr SWC-HP Pic 1.JPG (18.2 KB, 108 views)
Walkalong is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 03:54 PM   #7
SL1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2007
Posts: 2,001
Walkalong,

I think the OP is talking about the slight step in the case closer to the head. There is a very minor one visible in your picture, just above the lowest (open center) spot of tarnish. It indicates how far down the sizing operation actually was done on the case.

What you are talking about is the visible step in the case where the bullet's base sits, because the bullet has expanded the case a little when it was seated.

What you are talking about should not affect chambering in any gun. What the OP is asking about MIGHT affect chambering if the case was previously fired in a gun with a large chamber, reloaded, and used in a gun with a significantly tighter chamber.

SL1

Last edited by SL1; September 10, 2012 at 03:59 PM.
SL1 is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 03:58 PM   #8
Walkalong
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2007
Location: Al.
Posts: 194
Agh. I didn't wade through all of it.
Walkalong is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 04:17 PM   #9
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
This photo looks close but my bulge is closer to the base than to the top.

I can see here in this photo that the bulge would show the bottom edge of the bullet inside the case but the bulge I'm talking about is lower - closer to the base.

I'll try to get a photo to post. Not quite sure how to add a photo here but I'll see what I can.

As for the bulge. I'm guessing that it is probably about the same amount as shown in your photo, just in a different place. On mine, you can actually feel it more than see it.

Keats
Arizona
Keats is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 05:29 PM   #10
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
Well lets see if this photo thing works. Keeping my fingers crossed. If you look at the case, you may be able to see a faint line about 1/3 of the way up from the base. That's as far as the case goes into the sizing die. This is also where the bulge begins. Hope that this helps.
Keats
Arizona


[/IMG]
Keats is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 05:30 PM   #11
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
Well lets see if this photo thing works. Keeping my fingers crossed. If you look at the case, you may be able to see a faint line about 1/3 of the way up from the base. That's as far as the case goes into the sizing die. This is also where the bulge begins. Hope that this helps.
Keats
Arizona


URL=http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h423/Keats9287/?action=view&current=P1030568.jpg
Keats is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 05:31 PM   #12
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
Guess I still haven't got this photo thing down right. Sorry bout that..
Keats is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 09:21 PM   #13
Lost Sheep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,015
Linking to a picture

Is this your picture?


http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/...t=P1030568.jpg

I just took the internet location you provided and stripped off every character in front of the "http" and pasted that into my web browser and found the picture.

Once the picture web address was verified, I clicked on the "Insert Link" icon.

Lost Sheep
Lost Sheep is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 09:24 PM   #14
Lost Sheep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,015
Didn't work. Deleted

Last edited by Lost Sheep; September 10, 2012 at 09:53 PM.
Lost Sheep is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 09:36 PM   #15
Lost Sheep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,015
Actually embedding a picture in a post

You can click on the "Insert Image" icon and type (or paste) the location of the image (from your own computer or the web addres). Once the message has embedded the image, It does not matter if the original picture still exists or not. It is on TFL's server attached to your post.

Now, making the picture appear in your post without having to click a link, I have not figured out yet.

But I did reduce the size of the picture file and turned it upright.


Lost Sheep
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030568-15.JPG (14.4 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Lost Sheep; September 10, 2012 at 09:55 PM.
Lost Sheep is offline  
Old September 11, 2012, 12:27 AM   #16
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
Photo

Yep, That's the photo I took today. I just could not get it to load no matter what I tried.
It would not load from the insert image either. Guess I have to work on that some more.

So as far as the photo goes; If you look closely, you will see how far the case actually goes into the sizing die. The brass has a different color where it was sized.

If I ever get the picture thing figured out, I've got a few more photos to share that might show it better. I think that we've pretty much figured out the condition now. It does not occur with new cases so I'm assuming it's the expanded (read bulged) cases that have been slimmed down in the sizing step.

Great replys and I truely appreciate the time all of you took to delve into this for me.
Keats
Arizona
Keats is offline  
Old September 11, 2012, 04:55 PM   #17
30_06
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2
Adjust resizing die

unless you are using 45ACP die you should be able to adjust your resizing die to resize the entire case. Die instructions should explain this.
30_06 is offline  
Old September 11, 2012, 06:13 PM   #18
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 2,136
Quote:
I think that we've pretty much figured out the condition now. It does not occur with new cases so I'm assuming it's the expanded (read bulged) cases that have been slimmed down in the sizing step.
If you are using RCBS carbide dies and have adjusted them as per instructions you will not resize the whole case. Between the thickness of the shellholder and the gap needed so the carbide inserts do not hit the shellholder and crack, it is impossible. It is also not needed. As long as the reloaded shells drop easily into the chambers, there is not a problem.
buck460XVR is offline  
Old September 11, 2012, 06:28 PM   #19
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
I have my die adjusted exactly as I should. It just clears the press' plate on the full down stroke.

Your right, there's no way to get the round any further into the die without risking it hitting the press. That would be bad for the Carbide.

Not a huge problem, I was just concerned about the slight bulge I felt then was able to see and eventually measure.

I'm sure they will work very well in the wheel gun.

Thanks,

Keats
Arizona
Keats is offline  
Old September 11, 2012, 08:18 PM   #20
hammer062000
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2010
Posts: 8
I use a Hornady LnL progressive and Hornady carbide dies. I see the same bulge on my 45LC and 357mag. I too have checked and re checked my die to press clearance and it's as close as possible. The rounds chamber fine so I stopped worrying about it.
hammer062000 is offline  
Old September 12, 2012, 12:22 AM   #21
Keats
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10
I'm not going to be too concerned about the slight bulge. I thought that I was doing something wrong but apparently it's just the "nature of the beast.."

I'm sure that the rounds will function fine when I finally get a chance to try them.

Thanks again,


Keats
Arizona
Keats is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12527 seconds with 10 queries