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Old September 9, 2012, 01:51 PM   #1
rcherk
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Carrying 25 cal for protection

I have a 1910 25cal Mauser that I like to carry due to it's size. I am concerned should I ever need it, about the stopping power of the 25 cal, 50 gr. FMJ.
I have experimented and fired at a 3/8 piece of plywood floating in a 5 gal pail of water. The bullet pierced the wood, the water, the bottom of the pail and wound up pretty much intact in a second pail of water under the first one.

Can I use a hollow point with this handgun?

How many grain?

Where can I buy them.

I will continue to use the FMJ for target but want the hollow point to carry.

thanks
rich
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Old September 9, 2012, 02:14 PM   #2
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Under penetration generally being a concern with .25ACP, yours appears to be an exception, you'll not find many hollow point offerings.
There used to be a power point loading that was a hollow point with a steel BB inserted but don't know if it still exists.

I've always believed hardball was the best out of the little 25.
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Old September 9, 2012, 02:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
I have a 1910 25cal Mauser that I like to carry due to it's size. I am concerned should I ever need it, about the stopping power of the 25 cal, 50 gr. FMJ.
The .25 is not a great choice as a self defense round due to its lack of energy and the aforementioned lack of penetration. With that said, a .25 can certainly stop an attacker with proper shot placement and any gun is better than no gun.

As far as hollow points, I'd stick with FMJ and look to get as much penetration as possible out of this round.
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Old September 9, 2012, 03:37 PM   #4
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Carrying a .25 might make you "feel " better but it's not going to very very effective unless you can place shots very precisely on demand. I mean with surgical precision. Think about moving up to at least .380/.38 Spl caliber.
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Old September 9, 2012, 03:59 PM   #5
Bill DeShivs
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ANY handgun round requires surgical precision placement.
The .25 auto has good penetration from quality guns. Winchester made the expanding pellet nose round. I believe it's still available. Hornady offers a hollow point, also.
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Old September 9, 2012, 04:27 PM   #6
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Tuck it in the throat of your assailant, angled up towards his medulla, or bottom rear part of the brain. Best way to employ a .25 auto.
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Old September 9, 2012, 04:33 PM   #7
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With today's modern small semi-autos there is no reason to carry anything smaller than 9mm. Case in point Rohrbaugh R9, Rugers LC9, S&W M&P Shield series, Glock's subcompact models, Sig Sauer's 938, Kahr's compact models.
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Old September 9, 2012, 05:00 PM   #8
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The 25 ACP is like the 22LR, not the first or second or even third choice of the truly knowledgeable, but beats fists, feet and foul language. I have an Mauser M1914 in 32ACP, I find its ergonomics a little awkward though I suppose with sufficient practice I would get familiar enough with it to be comfortable with it.
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Old September 9, 2012, 06:26 PM   #9
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Winchester makes the Silver Tip in .25acp. Hornady 35 grain XTP-HP is an excellent choice. Test it in your gun though to confirm proper feeding.


http://www.winchester.com/Products/h...es/X25AXP.aspx

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/86546
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Old September 9, 2012, 07:24 PM   #10
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I have a 1910 also. With the longer barrel compared to most 25s it actually has quite a bit of velocity. I shot mine with Fiocchi ball over a chrono after I got it and it read 932 FPS. A few of those would sting a bit IMHO...no I do not carry it as a CCW. Merely a historical range toy.
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Old September 9, 2012, 07:35 PM   #11
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Over a decade ago before the pocket 380s that are on the scene now I carried a 25ACP Beretta loaded with some XTP rounds (I believe....). It's isn't the greatest defense gun but it meets the first rule of a gunfight--have a gun.

With the modern 380s available now, I'd probably pick one of them up if I was in your shoes (I have). The additional power is worth the upgrade IMO.
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Old September 10, 2012, 07:57 AM   #12
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Hey all...In regard to all that has been stated about moving up to a .380. I'd like to add my humble opinion. First let's consider stopping power vs. killing power. In regard to killing, the .25 will certainly do the job. Likewise, a simple .22 LR will also do that as well. However, not suddenly, which is what one wants. Consider the knife wielding bad guy coming at you from 25 feet away. What would you like to have in your hand at that time??...a simple and under powered .25, or something that starts with a .4 e.g. 40S&W, or a .45 acp?...Now, lets consider Stopping power. Like I just said, something with a caliber of something like a .40 or .45, this will give you two things. 1, it will give you the confidence that when the shtf, you have something that will stop the bad guy. 2, when that larger caliber hits the BG, he (or she) will know they have been hit by something that has caused them considerable pain, and not the feeling they have stung by a bee. If the round has been placed in the right location, they won't feel any pain at all, 'cause they will be eternally Stopped.
If you will just do a little research into stopping power and also the hydrostatic shock done to internal tissue and organs, you will see what I mean by STOPPING power.
There are many handguns around that are chambered in these calibers. that are also concealable. For myself, I use a Glock G23 in 40S&W. This weapon is lightweight, hence easy to carry in an IWB and it is also easy on felt recoil.
I wish you well my friend, and stay safe...
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Old September 10, 2012, 09:03 AM   #13
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If you will just do a little research into stopping power and also the hydrostatic shock done to internal tissue and organs, you will see what I mean by STOPPING power.
Are you being serious or joking? I'm being serious---I can't tell...
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Old September 10, 2012, 09:50 AM   #14
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.25acp FMJ, 15 inches penetration.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1715.htm
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Old September 10, 2012, 11:01 AM   #15
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Remember that the goal is to quickly stop an assailant before he can hurt you (or someone else). So the real question is how quickly and reliably being shot with a particular cartridge will force an attacker to stop whatever he is doing to try to hurt you (or someone else).

So while a .25 can certainly kill someone; but whether, if he's attacking you, a .25 will stop him quickly enough to keep him from hurting you badly is another question entirely.

There are four ways in which shooting someone stops him:
  1. psychological -- "I'm shot, it hurts, I don't want to get shot any more."
  2. massive blood loss depriving the muscles and brain of oxygen and thus significantly impairing their ability to function
  3. breaking major skeletal support structures
  4. damaging the central nervous system.

Depending on someone just giving up because he's been shot is iffy. Probably most fights are stopped that way, but some aren't; and there are no guarantees.

Breaking major skeletal structures can quickly impair mobility. But if the assailant has a gun, he can still shoot. And it will take a reasonably powerful round to reliably penetrate and break a large bone, like the pelvis.

Hits to the central nervous system are sure and quick, but the CNS presents a small and uncertain target. And sometimes significant penetration will be needed to reach it.

The most common and sure physiological way in which shooting someone stops him is blood loss -- depriving the brain and muscles of oxygen and nutrients, thus impairing the ability of the brain and muscles to function. Blood loss is facilitated by (1) large holes causing tissue damage; (2) getting the holes in the right places to damage major blood vessels or blood bearing organs; and (3) adequate penetration to get those holes into the blood vessels and organs which are fairly deep in the body. The problem is that blood loss takes time. People have continued to fight effectively when gravely, even mortally, wounded. So things that can speed up blood loss, more holes, bigger holes, better placed holes, etc., help.

So as a rule of thumb --
  • More holes are better than fewer holes.
  • Larger holes are better than smaller holes.
  • Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.
  • Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.
  • There are no magic bullets.

The bottom line is that a lower power cartridge with a smaller caliber bullet will make smaller holes and may not be able to as reliably penetrate to where those holes need to be to be most effective.

Or to put it another way, why would anyone think that a .25 will be enough when sometimes a .357 Magnum isn't necessarily enough. LAPD Officer Stacy Lim was shot in the chest with a .357 Magnum and still ran down her attacker, returned fire, killed him, survived, and ultimately was able to return to duty.

She was off duty and heading home after a softball game and a brief stop at the station to check her work assignment. According to the article I linked to:
Quote:
... The bullet ravaged her upper body when it nicked the lower portion of her heart, damaged her liver, destroyed her spleen, and exited through the center of her back, still with enough energy to penetrate her vehicle door, where it was later found....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agabus
...If you will just do a little research into stopping power and also the hydrostatic shock done to internal tissue and organs, you will see what I mean by STOPPING power....
Hydrostatic shock is not a factor with projectiles at typical defensive handgun energy/velocity levels.
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Old September 10, 2012, 11:30 AM   #16
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It makes you wonder why anyone would carry anything less than a .45 automatic, the only gun with proven stopping power (It says so in Small Arms of the World, Smith & Smith). It also makes you wonder why the Colt .31 caliber Model 1849 outsold the Colt Single Action Army.
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Old September 10, 2012, 11:40 AM   #17
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Maybe this will help...

Quote:
I have a 1910 25cal Mauser that I like to carry due to it's size.
If that is the case, then there are smaller, more effective guns out there:

http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
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Old September 10, 2012, 12:05 PM   #18
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With today's modern small semi-autos there is no reason to carry anything smaller than 9mm. Case in point Rohrbaugh R9, Rugers LC9, S&W M&P Shield series, Glock's subcompact models, Sig Sauer's 938, Kahr's compact models.
this is just my personal observation but the LC9 has had serious issues from day one, Kahr is notorious for hit or miss reliability and I've never once heard a good thing about rohrbaughs.

people are usually quick to post range reviews of glocks, M&Ps, XDs, SR9s... I have not read a range review of any of the aforementioned models in some time. could be something, could be nothing.

I would say that 25ACP is good for self defense but I would hesitate to trust a 102 year old gun with your life. no matter how well it has served you in the past and what type of ammo you are firing, at some point, something is going to break, that is just a rule of nature.
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Old September 10, 2012, 12:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plouffedaddy:

Are you being serious or joking? I'm being serious---I can't tell...
I was wondering the same thing.
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Old September 10, 2012, 01:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTrain
It makes you wonder why anyone would carry anything less than a .45 automatic, the only gun with proven stopping power (It says so in Small Arms of the World, Smith & Smith). It also makes you wonder why the Colt .31 caliber Model 1849 outsold the Colt Single Action Army.
People choose what they choose for a variety of reasons, and the fact that many people choose the same thing doesn't necessarily mean it's the best choice.

Any choice of a sidearm for self defense is a compromise of one sort or another. And while at one time or another pretty much every caliber handgun has been used effectively to stop a fight, it's a fact of physiology that something like a .45 is more likely to be effective, hits being equal, than something like a .22.

Someone can rationally choose to carry a .22, .25 or .32 for personal defense, but hopefully he understands that he is trading possible effectiveness for convenience and comfort. And hopefully someone who chooses a 9mm or .45 realizes that he is trading inconvenience and comfort for possibly greater effectiveness.
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Old September 10, 2012, 01:27 PM   #21
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I would also factor in the age of the gun, the springs, the quality of the metalurgy, etc.

The Winchester load with the birdshot in the tip gives good penetration, typically it doesen't expand much, it deforms enough to tumble pretty easily. The Gold Dot load hardly ever expands from my experience, but it does have that sharp edge to hopefully dig in to a bone. The XTP load will actually expand, the projectile looks just like the expanded XTP in larger calibers. It also has a sharp edged JHP. My wife carries a Seecamp .25 as a BUG and loads the Winchester load.
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:25 PM   #22
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Perhaps you all should re-read the OP's first two words- "I HAVE."
He didn't say he wanted to buy a new gun. He HAS a nice .25 auto-as millions of people do. Why shouldn't he want to use it? Or, would most of you just throw it away because it's "just a .25?"
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:53 PM   #23
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Why shouldn't he want to use it? Or, would most of you just throw it away because it's "just a .25?"
It'd be a fun range toy. A curio.

Bet my life on it? Put up with it's bulk? Not when there are better options.

It's a GUN. Beats harsh words .... but I'd go without some of life's luxuries for a bit to have a better carry gun than that.
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Old September 10, 2012, 10:55 PM   #24
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Practice and learn to shoot fast and accurate as possible because what it lacks in power if you got capacity it can make up for some but not all the cons. If i had to shoot someone with a .25 auto i would def aim as best i could to about 3 inchs or so above stomach to get the liver. A liver shot or shots could produce lots of blood loss and would be better than dropping a lung or getting stopped by a rib or chest bone all together. I agree with the stepup to a .380 or .38 but its better than throwing rocks and nothing.
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Old September 11, 2012, 01:29 PM   #25
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It worked for this guy (not to be too graphic) but he placed the shot in, let's call it, a "soft tissue" area of the body. Note also that one round of the .25acp passed through the perp and a steel door. Yes this is a verified legitimate story (many of you have probably already read so plz skip). And no I'm not advocating it be used for primary defense (it was this guy's .25acp BUG that saved his life , albeit barely...).

http://smallestminority.blogspot.com...ing-power.html
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