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Old September 8, 2012, 02:46 PM   #1
Blindjim
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Who makes good affordable scope mounts for CX4?

Greetings all!

I’m definitely in need of some knowledgable Scope mounting help now… please

I’ve decided finally, well almost completely but am waiting on more info from a maker, on getting one out of these four scopes to put on my Beretta CX4 carbine or my Mossberg 930 SPX 12ga… or switching it from one to the other now and then…. Maybe. The main concern is the CX4 however.

Both long guns have 1913 rails atop their recivers.

So, now I need input on choices for scope mounts for a ONE inch, or a 30MM scope mounting application. Either or.

I’m leaning towards the 1 inchers actually, but it’s gonna be one of these..
Leatherwood / Hi-Lux All Terrain ATR Buck Country 1.5-6x42mm 1in. Main Tube Riflescope
Nikon SlugHunter Riflescope 1.65 - 5x36 Matte Nikoplex 1 inch tube
Hawke Optics Eclipse 30 IR 1.5-6x44 Riflescope w/ illuminated L4 Dot 30mm tube
Hi lux Leatherwood CMR 1-4 x 24 illuminate reticle 30mm tube

the question is how tall must I go to overcome the sights of the Beretta?

My prob with the Beretta’s front and rear sights is that they are accompanied by an non removable upright to either side. They extend up, as best as I can measure 1 1/16 or 1 1/8 inches above the rails top surface and are a part of the stock/body of the rifle, as such aren’t going anywhere.

I think the CX4’s sights in general are similar in height to an AR 15 standard iron sights… if that means anything.

The CX4’s sights are open in the middle as I can flip down the aperture and peep, leaving only the twin uprights in place. I never will use the OEM sights.

The Mossberg as well is not without issues as it’s front dove tail sight is easily an inch tall and has those arching out ‘ears’ along side of the front post.

I’m thinking at bare minimum a NEDIUM tall set of rings is necessary… but again, I don’t know for sure. NOr did I see any mention of an appropriate application to the CX4 on any of the mounts I previewed online.

As noted above, the largest objective of these scopes is 44 mm, meaning it’s actual O.D. is likely 46 – 48 mm. And, I gotta get that up a goodly bit to clear the noted obstructions on each weapon.

I’m figuring “whom evers” low ring sets are probably not the ones I need, but I’m not sure how much taller I should go. Or if I should merely get a cheap “riser” (NC Star?) or adapter to raise up the level of the gun’s 1913 rail some and THEN attach “whom evers” ring/scope mount to that.

I’m looking for a simple and durable mount to put the new scope onto & off of these guns, without spending as much on them as I will on the scopes.

There has to be decent quality mounts out there for not a ton of bucks.

Suggestions?

Sure do appreciate your input as it is sorely needed.

Thanks much!
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Old September 8, 2012, 03:14 PM   #2
Eghad
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The iron sights at that height are not going to be an issue. Just need to make sure that the mounts are high enough to let the rear of the tube and the front of the tube clear any obstacles that prevent it from laying flat in the mounts. Any mount that fits the 1913 style rail will work.
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Old September 8, 2012, 07:10 PM   #3
FrosSsT
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I've never had a problem mounting any scopes on my CX4 with standard mid rings
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Old September 8, 2012, 08:34 PM   #4
Blindjim
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Frossst...

Thanks. Mid rise rings huh?

How big were the objective lens on the scope (s) you mounted?

And which brand mount have you used?

Thanks for the input but a bit more is required so I can use your solution completely. The Objective I'm probably going to use is the largest one I listed, at 44mm or about half of it's total of 48 - 49mm is what I gotta address....

lastly, did you hang your objective rearward of the CX4 rear sights, or set it in between them?

Huge thanks.
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.... for me, life becomes less and less shocking with every pull of the trigger.
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Old September 8, 2012, 09:30 PM   #5
Eghad
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Scope specs should include eye relief distance also.
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Old September 9, 2012, 11:19 AM   #6
Blindjim
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Eghad

UH, thanks.

OK... yeah.. all scopes I've looked at their specs tell the eye relief.

Soooo?

Forgive me but exactly how does that info help me find a mount solution, and one with the proper height to clear the CX4 sights without sticking it way up in the air???


so far, more research indicates the typical AR iron sight height is 1.4in. Where? Dunno. At the top I suspect. How much further above the sights should a scope rest eleudes me.

As said, and without a micrometer, mine measure about 1 1/8in from rail surface to the top of the plastic stock body which surrounds the metal sights, though the sights themselves are not as tall, and being flipped down as is usual, athey leave a horse shoe like appearance looking thru them down the barrel.

I think going with the tallest affordable mount out there is going to cause trouble in the short game. 0-50ft accuracy.

I've found many mounts use various info telling on the heights. Some use centerpoint of the rings. some use the lower inside of the ring as their meansurements.

I CAN NOT use slide on & slide off RAIL mounts.

They MUST be drop on types. QR or not.

Thus far, I've nothing to go on here that is truly pertinent for my current quest.

I'd like to stick around the $100 & less area, for those who actually know anything abhout choosing the right scope mount for a rifle.... PLEASE do chime in with your experiences and suggestions.

some which seem appropriate are:
Armalite
Buruss
Wilson

all are about $100 or under. QR are near double these at $160 & up, making them too rich for my blood.

I wonder too, if with two guns to deal with, that this means possibly two mounts as well. Crap if it does.

Help.. with some actual brand and model names, which you feel will solve my issue.. please
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Will Rogers said, "there's 3 sorts of people in this world, those who learn by books, those who learn by the experiences of others, and those who just have to pee on the electric fence every now and then."

.... for me, life becomes less and less shocking with every pull of the trigger.
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Old September 9, 2012, 11:21 AM   #7
FrosSsT
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Quote:
Thanks. Mid rise rings huh?

How big were the objective lens on the scope (s) you mounted?

And which brand mount have you used?

Thanks for the input but a bit more is required so I can use your solution completely. The Objective I'm probably going to use is the largest one I listed, at 44mm or about half of it's total of 48 - 49mm is what I gotta address....

lastly, did you hang your objective rearward of the CX4 rear sights, or set it in between them?

Huge thanks.
The optics and scopes I've mounted on my CX4 were compact enough to fit between the "irons" (more like "plastics" if you ask me). I just tried mounting a full size 3-12x40 on it and I see your problem. I would not mount the optic's eyepiece behind the rear iron due to eye relief issues. If I were you I would nix the idea of a full size optic and go with a compact or an illuminated optic (like a red dot etc). The full size optics are going to require high rings that will also require an adjustable/raised cheek weld which I dont even think they make for the CX4. The CX4 is not (in any caliber) a gun that I'd put a high power scope on, because it is just not effective enough past 100 yards. (There are way better tools for that then the CX4) The storm was designed as a close range defensive carbine (not a sniper) and that is the thing you must consider the most.
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Old September 10, 2012, 05:05 AM   #8
Blindjim
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I gotta deal with what I have on hand. Though I can't help but agree with a lot of what you are saying... it's what is not being said here which is dismaying.

TRU&E
Thanks. That was enlightening.

True… I’ve noticed the idea on the CX4’s intended purpose is aimed at CQB.

All of my current and prospective scope choices are tilted in that direction… the highest powered scope comes in at 7x. Most are 4x to 6x. Several are shotgun scopes actually. I’ve even been looking at loophold shotgun scopes all day so far… and rechecking specs or stuff on the rest.. Mostly scrutinizing the reticles and examining their various eye reliefs as opposed to my own hold on the rifle.

…and the size of the objective lens… it must be large enough to accommodate my own shortcomings… and something in the range of 1.5 in – 1.95 is the smallest I feel I can deal with. So from 40mm to 46mm allows for that.

True placing the scope between the “bumps:”. On the CX4 seems the best choice and builds in plenty of ER. It’s also the hardest way to put a scope onto a CX4. It eliminates a lot of scopes purely due to the limited span between the twin bumps surrounding the OEM sights..

The rail itself measures under 11 in for sure. About 10 + in fact. At the top of the bumps, but still inside of them as the aim is to keep the centerline of the scope as low as p[ossible to the bore, I measure under 11.5in.

True… as I keep saying… CAN NOT USE A RED RETICLE… 95% of the time.

Unless I’m being attacked in daytime while in the Artic by a Polar Bear. Then… maybe. I know I’ll empty the magazine anyhow. But I might just see a red dot in all of that whiteout.

True… So far, I’ve not found any green reticles on shotgun scopes. Or any illuminated ones.

The shortest scope I’ve found is a Nikon Prostaff Slug hunter which is 11.14in long.and has enough magnification and lens to make it usable for me.

A Hawke 30IR 1.25-6 x 24 is only 10.6in long, but the eyepiece is under 1in wide. Even with an illuminated reticle which it has, the less than 1in glasss is little help.


Buying, trying, and if needed returning it/them is going to be a real drag…. Even if any are returnable.

ANYONE KNOW OF SCOPE MOUNT SALES WHICH ENABLE THE BUYER TO RETURN IT IF IT ISN’T THE RIGHT FIT without a fee?

Simpler still would be to hear what solutions other CX4 owners have found.. but they ain’t talking… must not be any around here.
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Will Rogers said, "there's 3 sorts of people in this world, those who learn by books, those who learn by the experiences of others, and those who just have to pee on the electric fence every now and then."

.... for me, life becomes less and less shocking with every pull of the trigger.
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Old September 11, 2012, 12:02 PM   #9
Blindjim
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Check please!! I'm done.

finis
OK… I’m done. Screw the scope idea for close in use with a CX4. Fitting my needs is well beyond the experiences & wisdom of this site apparently.

In general, I’ll admit it’s not the easiest thing to come up with given my own needs. Despite the llack of viable input offered here. I regret my expectations for this site were higher .

However, as I’ve posted above my experiences researching this effort, some good comes of it for someone else, somewhere down the road…. As I did learn a bit for those who do and do not have special needs, when it comes to some scope and scope mounting topics. And only wished to share it with others as it would be a waste to keep such info to myself...


As for CX4 owners….
Beretta says the bumps on the top of the receiver are 1 inch tall. So mounts which elevate the scope to at least that height will work.

Meaning, ones which raise the scope body bottom most portion to that height… not it’s centerline.


Then there’s the rub… How do mount makers measure their mounts or rings biz which really does get involved. Some measure to the middle of their rings, some to the tops, and some at the bottoms.

Buriss measures to the bottom of the ring

The rail atop the CX4 is right at 11 inches between the bumps at the surface of the rail. They slope away from the rial as they rise. Close guess work tells me scopes less than 12 inches long should work especially if the objective lens is 25 mm or so. Larger objective lens’ will have the lower portion of the lens obscured somewhat… unless a taller mount is selected,


I looked at so many scopes I lost track of them all, and then shook down that list to some shorter scopes figuring them a better fit and list them here: Scopes under 11.5 inches that I found reasonably priced. They range from $99 to $209. Several with free S/H.


Leatherwood
Leatherwood aTR Buck Country 1.5-6 x 42 is 11.2 inches. $99 - $108
Leatherwood CMR illuminated 1-4 x 23 is 12.3 long. I felt the current deal on one via an online seller was worth it’s mention. Google and you’ll see the seller easily… or call Leatherwood for details. $329 w/mount



Leupold shotgun scopes
1-4 x 20vx1 is 9.5 inches long $99 - $149
this is likely your best bet if you enjoy good eyesight.

2-7x33 VX-1 Shotgun/Muzzleloader Scope is 11.3 inches $209



Nikon
(all listed Nikon scopes have a current rebate offer of $30 from their listed prices)
Prostaff shotgun Hunter 2-7x32 #6720 is 11.2 in long. $149
Prostaff Rifle Hunter 2-7x32mm Riflescope, #6719 is 11.5 in long. $149
Nikon Slug Hunter 1.65 – 5 x 36 is 11.14 inches long. $199
(the Slug hunter is the more costly by $50 than the other two which cost the same but have different reticles and power)



Hawke Optics
Eclipse 30 IR comes in 4 editions, all have (illuminated reticle red or green), reticles depend on model.
Models: $229 - $299
HK3280 1.25-6x24 L4 Dot 10.6 in long
HK3282 1.5-6x44 L4 Dot 12.2 in long
I thought this model viable as it contained many of the priceyer Letherwood CMR OPTIONS BUT FOR LESS $$$$.



As for mounts…
Burris says their PEPR AR one piece scope mount raises a one inch scope tube body to 1 inch above the rail itself, or to a 1.5 inch centerline of the scopes lens. If the scope has a one inche objective lens you’re golden. 1 inch = 25.4 mm. if it’s wider, you’re going to have some of it’s lower portion obscured.

The Burris 30 mm PEPR scope mount raises those levels accordingly but just a bit higher, and sets the objective lens center at 1.6 in above the rail.

Pick which ever mount according to the body of the scope as said by it’s maker. 1 inch or 30 mm. if the entire scope remains at that diameter, you should be fine enough.

If that height of rise is not enough, Burris also makes a quarter inch riser the PEPR can affix to for greater lift. I’m sure others make such things too, but I was talking to Burris support and got that tid bit added on for free and just threw it in here at no charge..

At approximately $80, the Burris P.E.P.R. “Perfect Eye position Readiness” one piece aR mount is a solid solution and doesn’t compromise stability or encumber operational status. It seems too, the most cost effective path.for a good to very good choice in one piece mounts with good rise & build Q.

If you do not own a CX4, the world is your ‘scope mount ‘ oyster.

If you do, but do not want to take the above info as valid, or just don't know just which mount is worth getting or will work and want all info and all mounts, see the links I’ve posted below for some brief comparisons and reviews.



If I pursue this further, I’ll roll the dice and see if my luck holds by experimenting with some cheap Chinese sighting solutions . On average, I’ve had great luck with a fair amount of them to date. Even found a couple air rifle laser remedies which work…. On my 12 ga. Auto and have never once blinked and have outshone all others in brightness and hence, distance.. see Longhorn Tactical if interested, I got mine there.

Or merely aim to outfit my 930 SPX ONLY. Still, that circus will require either another barrel be bought from Mossberg sans such a tall front sight or find a taller mount for the scope I intend to use on it..



Other useful scope & scope mount links I’ve just found which currently are alive are:
1 Hunting Scope FAQ - http://huntingscopes.lifetips.com/fa...cle/index.html General scope front to back knowledge base.

2 Ar15 mounts info: http://maxicon.com/guns/optics/one_p...unts.htm#table listings and brief reviews

3 Adjusting Rifle eye relief: http://www.about-shooting.com/Eye_Relief.php several installation topics surrounding scopes are listed there.

4 Basic reticle info from - http://www.opticsplanet.com/selecting-reticles.html Chuck Hawks wrote this article and describes various reticle styles. Optics planet I think… has pics of many reticles.


Swfa.com, and optics planet.com had the most reasonable prices on average.


I do hope some one can get something from this info which solves their CX4 scope mounting effort.. If not, get the contact us info online, and call different makers opf mounts and scopes and the maker of your gun for suggestions. That’s what I did ultimately, getting scant little direct info here.
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Will Rogers said, "there's 3 sorts of people in this world, those who learn by books, those who learn by the experiences of others, and those who just have to pee on the electric fence every now and then."

.... for me, life becomes less and less shocking with every pull of the trigger.
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Old September 11, 2012, 08:25 PM   #10
FrosSsT
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Quote:
Fitting my needs is well beyond the experiences & wisdom of this site apparently.
Quote:
I regret my expectations for this site were higher

The question you are asking of everyone is just not that reasonable. You want to put a full sized scope with a large objective on a close quarters carbine built for under 50 yards. You also have not explained what your primary application would be (I can not see any application for the set up you desire to be honest)

If you are dead set on a scope and not an illuminated sight I have tried to explain that the best course of action would be to use a compact scope (UTG makes a great compact scope from what I've read) Even if you WERE to find an optic mount and optic that would work with the CX4 - your cheek would not be able to rest on the stock, and your eye relief would also be way off. All in all the CX4 is not a good candidate for a scope - it just does not have the accuracy.
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Old September 12, 2012, 08:06 AM   #11
Blindjim
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I'll stick with LASERS

Hmmm.

I’ve heard everything you’ve said everytime. I never read anything about any suggestion for the UTG scope… until now.

However, I did strive to check out the shortest scopes of good quality....

Cheek weld & eye relief are both non critical IMO with a rifle that has next to no recoil and is so light, especially with targets under 30feet. It's a varitable point and shoot weapon. Unless of course I’m supposed to be hitting threats in the eyeball, nostril or at the bridge of the nose only.

As for accuracy... I've only been able to shoot 75ft - 100ft targets using a laser to sight with. The results were not such that placing the tag of my CX4 as being inaccurate are proper. When I did my job well 3 shot groups of Hornady 165gr ZOMBIE AND TAP ammo, came in right at 2 inch to 3 inches.

With eyes that CAN NOT see well enough now to read the newspaper or drive anymore…. I’d say that’s Damn good.

I doubt seriously I’ll evver have to shoot anything threatening at those distances. The idea of a scope, even the 9 inch Leiuhold whose objective lens is too small for me, would gain me a closer sight picture and as such give me more fun at the range so I could get used to operating with it.

Regaredless the point for me at least is moot. I’m done. It’s lasers or lights. Point and shoot four or five shots at center mass in a high stress situation anyhow. I can manage that at 30ft or less without a laser, or blinding light. Even if I could shoot again as I have long ago, during a very stressful incident, I’d not shoot a head shot. 4 or 5 rounds quickly into the thorax with 165gr – 180gr JHP ammo ought to do it…. Naturally, that is IF I grab the Beretta instead of the 930 SPX 12ga. That is my GO TO HD weapon.

The idea remains too…. The initial intention, if you re-read my post was to outfit incidentally, form time to time, two guns. The Beretta yeah… but the Mossberg shotgun too.

So all would not gbe lost if indeed the chosen scope was no good for me on the CX4. Likely it would have been good on the Mossy.

All my eggs were not in one basket from the get go.

For people with good vision all around, putting optics onto the CX4 is or should be a slam dunk.

BTW… at 25ft – 35ft with the laser, I’m in the 10 or on the line, fairly often. The scope idea was just a desire for me, not a prerequisite, or hafve to… though I still feel it’s very doable.
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Old May 22, 2013, 01:16 AM   #12
CalamityD
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"Objective Lens"

Perhaps what's confusing some is that you're referring to the eyepiece as the objective lens...? I've got a cx4 I just fitted with a Sighmark Red dot for point and shoot simplicity for my wife (shot gun is too much kick for her). I've recently added an AR tripler from Burris with a flip to side mount for multi-purpose hunting/camping scenarios. The red dot sight comes with 4 different reticules which I hope will help compensate for bullet drop at longer ranges. The red dot sits high enough to clear the front sights altogether. (not even in my sight picture) the 3x Burris tripler mounted on a medium height flip to side from "Vernom" sets the sight line slightly higher than the center line of the red dot, and the eyepiece nearly clears the rear sight "rabbit ears"but sits far enough back to be within the 2.5 to 2.75 eye relief if I adjust my cheek weld slight closer to the rear sight than normal. I feel like I might've done better to mount the tripler another 1/4" higher so as to clear the rear sight for a more aft mount, but the red dot as mentioned sits slightly lower already. Still undecided whether this setup is going to work for both purposes as intended (need to ensure ejecting brass isn't beating up the scope when flipped to side, sighting, accuracy at varios ranges, etc). The flip to side is spring loaded and requires one button press with my left thumb and it's out of the way instantly, so that's a plus.
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Old May 22, 2013, 07:51 PM   #13
Blindjim
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Nice Idea...

I appreciate the info. Hope things work out soon with your rig.

The objective lens is not the lens closest to your eye?

I’d ask about the height off the rail you found desirable, or had to go with… “How far up would you say the scopes center line is from either the bore or the rail?”…. and possibly too, “At what distance do you have your zero?” I’m liking Hornady 165 JHP TAP or Zombie ammo, but speer GD 155s in 40SW are as accurate in mine.

Under that specific range, I’d suppose there is some personal adjustments as it would land naturally lower closer in… but then by what… an inch or two, depending?

I’ve seen several scopes which should work, but they just seemed cost prohibitive at the time ranging at or well over $350 plus their prerequisite attachments.

So far, I’ve landed on green lasers, red simply will not work for me. My ears still stick up when a new scope gets some good press now and then.

Looking forward to your reply. … and, I’ll look into what you’ve set up.

This would be a lot simpler task if I had more confidence in entry level or off shore scopes, or those made with red dots were as well made with green ones instead.

Many thanks.
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