The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 7, 2012, 01:41 PM   #1
Lavan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 2,107
Short barrel .357s

I carried and liked my 642 in .357 with 125 gr HP non +P loads in my pawnshop.

What I liked best was the muzzle blast. In practice at 7 yards indoor range, the blast would blow the paper target out almost horizontally.

Imagine the distraction for a bad guy if you did have to cut loose a SD round. Being INSIDE a muzzle flash could ruin your day. Not to mention the bullet.

Lavan is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 01:43 PM   #2
hulley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Hoschton, Ga.
Posts: 717
Yep, thats part of the fun for me and why I'm on the hunt for a SP101 in .357mag, although I'm leaning towards the 3" version.
__________________
Nov 2, 2011 sent form 4, SS Sparrow. Arrived May 29, 2012.
Jan 30, 2012 sent form 1 for SBR. Arrived July 12, 2012
Jan 22, 2013 Sent form 4, 762-SDN-6. Arrived Sept 13, 2013
hulley is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 02:17 PM   #3
Skeet732
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2009
Posts: 3
Years ago, I had a short barreled S&W .357; not very accurate but LOUD. Lots of fun at the range.
Skeet732 is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 06:21 PM   #4
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,235
'Non +p'?

Then you shot .38s out of your .357 and think it has muzzle blast?

That is no different from a regular J frame .38 snub.

Deaf
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 06:27 PM   #5
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 404
I guess I didn't notice much difference at my outdoor range on 2" guns shooting 357 or 38 via my SP101....
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 07:20 PM   #6
WC145
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2008
Location: Downeast Maine
Posts: 1,437
The 642 is a .38spl, the 640 is a .357 mag.
__________________
“Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”
WC145 is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 07:24 PM   #7
ohen cepel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 1999
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 1,013
Remember, that flash work both ways. You may be as/more blind than him come the next shot.
__________________
He who dares wins.

NRA Life Benefactor Member
ohen cepel is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 07:53 PM   #8
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,889
Other than making a lot of noise you are only getting 38 Special perfomance from those short barrels. A 9mm in a comparably sized gun will actually hit harder and not be such a distraction to the shooter.

Lotta bark, not much bite.
jmr40 is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 08:36 PM   #9
jglsprings
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2009
Posts: 1,459
Yep, I shoot snub nose 357s. The K frames are better than the J frame, but the J frame is the easiest to carry. The short barrel loads from Speer are my current "favorite" for all of them. The S/B 357 works very well. If that is too much for you try the S/B 38 +p. My previous favorite was the FBI load of the LSWCHP. (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=108)







And an occasional 38.



I really laugh at the bottom feeder shooters that complain about how "snappy" the 40 S&W is to shoot.
__________________
An Internet forum is like having a friendly conversation over a drink at a local tavern.

Some guy at the end of the bar always has to stand up and shout something that makes no sense at all.

Last edited by jglsprings; September 7, 2012 at 08:43 PM.
jglsprings is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 10:47 PM   #10
Lavan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 2,107
woops.... 640

.357 mag 125 gr. No +P marking on case.
Was on CCW for years.
Good accuracy but I only qualified with .38s.

The .357 were for pawnshop over the counter range.
With the 38 qual running 290+/300 I figured I could hit at 6-8 feet.

Unpleasant. But the muzzle blast wasn't blinding in the daytime.
Just hot, noisy and big.

good enuff
Lavan is offline  
Old September 7, 2012, 11:56 PM   #11
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 404
9mm out of a 3" barrel carries more performance than a 357 it of a 2.5" barrel? I'm listening.....
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old September 8, 2012, 01:21 AM   #12
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 7,435
Quote:
9mm out of a 3" barrel carries more performance than a 357 it of a 2.5" barrel? I'm listening.....
Not really more - but - the 9mm in a +P doesn't give up much.ground to a .357 snub.
One day as I was cleaning my S&W mod 66 w/2.5" barrel and also my Browning Hi Power,I laid the Hi Power on top of the 66 just to get an idea about overall size.
I discovered that they were nearly the same size & the Hi Power was actually a bit slimmer.
I went online and started looking at the 124 gr +P 9mm loads and found out there isn't a whole lot of difference between them and a 125 gr 357 out of a 2.5" barrel.
A bonus for the Hi Power is that it's worlds easier to shoot and has far less blast...plus it has twice as many rounds on board.
I traded away the 66 and never looked back.
Hal is offline  
Old September 8, 2012, 04:24 AM   #13
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,235
9mm more than .357 in power from short barrels?

Not exactly...

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=277

BUFFALO-BARNES LEAD-FREE HEAVY 357 Mag - 125 gr. Barnes XPB @ 1448 fps - S&W mod 66, 2.5 inch barrel

BUFFALO-BARNES LEAD-FREE HEAVY 357 Mag - 140 gr. Barnes XPB @ 1385 fps—S&W mod 66, 2.5 inch barrel.

Bet they kick a mite to!

Deaf
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old September 8, 2012, 05:18 AM   #14
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
The .357 magnum is a +P cartridge to begin with and they should not be marked either way. It is true that some loads are loaded lighter than others, however.

You do get better than .38 special performance out of a short barrel revolver. If shot from a shorter barrel, the performance of both .38 Special and .357 magnum is reduced. However, some loads of any handgun cartridge will perform better than others from a short barrel. That's not saying they perform better in short barrels than in longer barrels, though. Blast and recoil come with the territory but lighter bullets have less kick. Muzzle flash is not the same thing.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old September 8, 2012, 08:31 AM   #15
smokehouse4444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 159
The muzzle flash and report from the short 357's are definitely impressive. My wife said she preferred a "wheelgun" so I purchased her this Ruger SP101 with CT grips and she LOVES it. She practices primarily with 38's, but when we practice with 357's it is any typical decent 110gr-124gr that we find cheap. What is kept loaded for SD and in a speed loader is CorBon 110gr JHP. I think that is going to hit as hard or harder than a 124 gr gold dot from my Sig P226.

Recently we were at the indoor range shooting several of our firearms. We started shooting the SP101 in 357. There was a cop next to us practicing that eventually leaned around the barrier and tapped me on the shoulder. He had a huge grin on his face, and told me that everytime I fired that 357, it was making his teeth rattle. It puts on a show for sure.

SP101 after a day at the range:



smokehouse4444 is offline  
Old September 8, 2012, 11:51 AM   #16
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 404
I don't feel under gunned with my sp101 carrying Hornady CD ammo. I'm also fine carrying my XD9sc with PowRBall ammo. I do prefer my SP though.
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old September 8, 2012, 02:17 PM   #17
Lavan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 2,107
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
Lavan is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 09:43 AM   #18
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,876
Quote:
Other than making a lot of noise you are only getting 38 Special perfomance from those short barrels. A 9mm in a comparably sized gun will actually hit harder and not be such a distraction to the shooter.
Sigh, the old ".357 from a short barrel is just a loud .38" myth that refuses to die. If we look at the data from Ballistics by the Inch (and bear in mind that they measure their barrels by the semi-auto method), we see that from a 3" barrel (actually closer to a 2" revolver barrel) that all of the 125gr .357 Magnum loadings are running at least 1250fps while none of the 125gr .38 Special loadings could even break 900fps from a 3" barrel. Likewise, the Cor-Bon 125gr and Speer 124gr couldn't break 1250fps until fired from a 5" barrel while the Federal Hydra-Shok 124gr only made 1250fps from a 17" barrel.

With heavy bullets, the .357 Magnum's edge widens. Both of the Federal 158gr loadings were over 1100fps and the Cor-Bon 140gr load and Federal 130gr Hydra-Shok were just shy of 1200fps from 3" barrels at 1172fps and 1194fps respectively. No .38 Special loads heavier than 135gr were tested and even then, none could break 1000fps regardless of weight. In the 9mm, the 135gr Federal Hydra-Shok required a 6" barrel to break 1100fps and the 147gr Hydra-Shok couldn't make 1100fps from any barrel length.

The only way you're going to get a .38 Special or 9mm to meet or exceed the ballistics of a .357 Magnum are to either cherry pick the most powerful .38 Special and 9mm Boutique loadings against the mildest .357 Magnum loadings or to compare the 9mm and .38 from long barrels against the .357 Magnum from short barrels.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 11:54 AM   #19
smokehouse4444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 159
Nice post Webley. Checking all of those stats out, I think I may give the CorBon 125gr DPX a try, see how it compares to the 110 gr.
smokehouse4444 is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 12:05 PM   #20
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,876
Quote:
Nice post Webley. Checking all of those stats out, I think I may give the CorBon 125gr DPX a try, see how it compares to the 110 gr.
From a short barrel, loadings with heavy bullets are actually the most efficient. This is because it takes more pressure to push a heavier bullet out of the case than a light one and thus a greater percentage of the powder is burned inside the case rather than in the barrel. This also means that, with a short barrel, a smaller percentage of the powder burns after the bullet has already left the barrel and thus velocity "loss" is typically less. So long as the recoil doesn't bother you, I'd recommend the 140gr JHP loading if you want to use Cor-Bon in a short barrel.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 12:50 PM   #21
Jim Downey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Posts: 203
As usual, Webleymkv sums up our data very well, and draws the exact same conclusions from it as I do. Which is why I load my short-barrel J-frames with 158 grain bullets. (Currently, this one.)

A reminder, be sure to take a look at the extra .38/.357 data in our series of Cylinder Gap Tests.

Jim
__________________
James Downey
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/ - BBTI handgun cartridge research
http://www.guns.com/author/jim-downey/ - Guns.com where I'm a features/review writer
http://www.communionofdreams.com/ Communion of Dreams - my current novel.
Jim Downey is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 01:01 PM   #22
rrruger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2012
Posts: 144
Quote:
you are only getting 38 Special perfomance from those short barrels. A 9mm in a comparably sized gun will actually hit harder and not be such a distraction to the shooter.
I wonder which one puts the biggest holes in a 1957 Chevy body?

That ought to dispel any comments about which hits hardest.
rrruger is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 01:21 PM   #23
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
They should all put exactly the same sized holes in a car body, wouldn't you think?

To WebleyMkV, while what you say is correct in that a faster burning powder is more efficient in a shorter barrel, because it's more likely to all be burned within the barrel, I don't think that's necessarily the way to measure efficiency. It may or may not be true that the faster burning powder will produce a higher velocity, though it will probably produce less muzzle flash or blast. I would be more likely to believe that a heavier charge of slower burning powder may in fact produce a higher velocity even at the cost of less efficiency as far as burning powder is concerned. Even so, there's more to it than that.

If you have a variety of handguns, particularly of the same caliber, you may not want to customize the loads that much. In other words, there's no point in having the same caliber if you use different loads in different guns, though I still understand the object. One might want to use different loads even though you only had one gun. In addition to having a load suitable for shooting 1957 Chevrolets, which would be detestible, you might still have use for wadcutters in your pet .357 revolver.

Ultimately, you can only measure the efficiency of the load by measuring the velocity of the load--in your own gun. That's true for factory ammo, too, about which you may not know anything about the powder. Of course, muzzle flash and blast can still be a concern that you will still want to take into account no matter what the velocity comes out to be.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 01:21 PM   #24
AZAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2008
Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed
Posts: 2,103
Quote:
I wonder which one puts the biggest holes in a 1957 Chevy body?

That ought to dispel any comments about which hits hardest.
Well let's see:
9mm bullet diameter is .355
.38 bullet diameter is .357

Maybe the '57 Chevy test media can tell the .002 of an inch difference in hole size?
__________________
The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation...
Elementary Education.

Now, go figure...
AZAK is offline  
Old September 9, 2012, 02:13 PM   #25
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 1,906
Quote:
Quote:
I wonder which one puts the biggest holes in a 1957 Chevy body?

That ought to dispel any comments about which hits hardest.
Well let's see:
9mm bullet diameter is .355
.38 bullet diameter is .357

Maybe the '57 Chevy test media can tell the .002 of an inch difference in hole size?
I here 50 AE is the proper load for those! Or 600 Overkill if you have your rifle handy!
Nathan is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13026 seconds with 7 queries