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Old September 6, 2012, 07:17 AM   #1
300magman
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Stuck Case Removal - What to do with decapping pin?

After over a year as a reloader, I probably have more rounds under my belt than I can count. Everything from .223 to 45/70 and many inbetween; and so far, all has gone well.
BUT there is one cartridge that I Can Not reload. . . the ever popular 30.06

30.06 is the only case that I have ever stuck in a die, and I've done it FOUR times in 60 attempts. I've used spray lube, old fashioned lube, I've applied it lightly, I've packed it in until it dented cases. . . but before long, one sticks!


I use a Forster Benchrest full length sizing die, and I've completely disassembled and cleaned it several times. It appears to be polished to a perfect mirror finish but had one nasty burr where the vent hole was drilled. I've since had that fixed (it took very little polishing) and the neck expanding ball has been lightly polished as well. And is adjusted slightly to the conservative side of the proper position to ensure no mechanical interference.


Other than a magical explaination of why this die/cartridge confounds me, what I really want to know is how to remove a stuck case with the decapping pin protruding through the flash hole.
The fit of the die is such that it can't really be backed out; I achieved that feat a few times with a vice and a set of channel locks, but each time it mangled the decapping assembly and now there isn't enough of it left for another attempt.

Is there a way that I should have been doing it, to Not destroy the decapping assembly?
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Old September 6, 2012, 07:19 AM   #2
300magman
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BTW, I have no trouble removing the case, once the decapping assembly is out of the way...drill, tap, washer, socket, bolt and TA-DA

And I have also decided to remove old primers with a Lee universal deprimer, and full lenth size with the decapping pin Removed from the assembly, and the assembly chopped off as short as possible (via dremel) before sizing any more cases.

That way if one sticks, its as simple as directly going to the tap and die step for removal.


Of course I have also thought about tossing the forster die in the trash and buying a different brand. Most of my dies are RCBS, but I do have some Hornady, one Lee, and one other Forster (which seems to work fine)
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:03 AM   #3
Marco Califo
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You have good ideas, here are more

1. Lee decapper first, then wash cases in dish soap and hot water. Tumble with auto polish added.
2. Remove your dies pin insert, or buy a cheap die that does.
3. Body size only, neck size later.
4. I currently use Lucas white lithium grease as sizing lube. A thin film only. Really reduces leverage needed. Never sticks. Then tumble to remove it. I you get much resistance, something is wrong, stop, back out and start over.
5. Some dies are designed such that the pin can be used to push the stuck case out. Lee are like this. RCBS will replace broken pin assemblies free.
I think the lithium grease helps the most with 308 machine gun fired LC. So well that now I leave the pin in.
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:35 AM   #4
jimkim
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I had the same problem with some small base dies. I started using Bag Balm and haven't stuck a case since.

The only way to remove a stuck case with the pin in the flash hole is to buy a die that you can knock the stuck case out with the pin and a hammer. That wouldn't work with your die. I'd give Forster a call and see what they say. You may need to send the die back along with some fire-formed brass.
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:59 AM   #5
higgite
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Would a Forster stuck case remover work for you?

http://www.forsterproducts.com/catal...showprevnext=1

Cheaper here: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/706...k-case-remover
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Old September 6, 2012, 02:00 PM   #6
300magman
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Yes, that tool does exactly what I need. I did not realize that forster had a special tool for thier uniquely difficult dies.

I do see one Big problem though. The threaded rod portion of the decapping assembly seems to be made out of a very weak metal (at least on mine) the first time I applied even the slightest twist with a screw driver it split down and sideways, like a piece of firewood with a lot of grain often does when struck by an axe.

I might order one (along with the new decapping assembly that I now need) and give it a try though, at least then I wouldn't have to use a separate depriming die and cut the bottom off my the new decapping assembly.
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Old September 6, 2012, 06:03 PM   #7
dunerjeff
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One thing I have seen on my 30-06 cases is a bad burr on the mouths. I had some that would size hard, very hard, when I trimmed the case and generously chamfered both inside and outside it helped quite a bit. I also took a razor blade(the boxcutter type) and shaved the id of the mouth to make sure there was none of the burr left. I have not seen that burr on any other caliber, just the 30-06.
The expander should be down inside when the neck is being sized but that burr sure causes a lot of drag. I also only use RCBS case lube but I roll them on the pad and make sure the entire case has a film on it, not just a patch here and there.
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Old September 6, 2012, 11:24 PM   #8
medalguy
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Switch over to Imperial Die Wax and I can pretty well guarantee you will not stick another case IF you use the wax properly. A small tin will last you for years and it's about $8 anywhere.

I really don't understand the fascination with all the other lubes and such that people feel inclined to use when there are excellent products, easily obtained, inexpensively priced, and perfectly matched to the task at hand.
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Old September 7, 2012, 12:09 AM   #9
Marco Califo
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Quote:
I really don't understand the fascination with all the other lubes and such that people feel inclined to use when there are excellent products, easily obtained, inexpensively priced, and perfectly matched to the task at hand.
Well then, I guess I want share my secret whipped lube recipe of bacon grease, STP, melted sperm whale blubber, cocoa butter, and Pennzoil 10W-40. Maybe I'll try adding some Bag Balm, next time, too.
Seriously, I think lube products for reloaders is a marketing myth. The logic seems to be: If they sell it, I must need it, so I bought it. Then to justify having bought it, they try to convince other people to buy their brand to show how "smart they are". And these special products do not necessarily work phenomenally, or any better than motor oil.
The lithium grease really works. I was using Lyman lube (which looks and feels suspiciously like wheel bearing grease) and used to slide a pipe over the handle of my Redding single stage when resizing mil 308, for more leverage, and was thinking of adding a foot hold of rebar to the bottom of the tree trunk section it is mounted to. When I tried Lithium grease, I do not even need the pipe anymore. Lubes are just that: lubricants to reduce friction and minimize sticking. There is no monopoly or patent on making lubes that work for this purpose. Quite a few of us have simply looked around the garage. Commercial case lubes started as innovative ideas in garages.
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Old September 7, 2012, 12:16 AM   #10
dunerjeff
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Yup^^ You can also substitute Imperial sizing wax with Mink Oil(I used that when I had some) for water proofing boots. It all works,some a little better, maybe. The key is to use lube.
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Old September 7, 2012, 07:49 AM   #11
300magman
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I'm not sure if one type of lube really works better than another or not, I have tried a few on my press, but none have really outshined the others. (including the magical Imperial Die Wax that I see mentioned every so often)

I was over at a friends last year and helped them size some 308 with thier "rock crusher" press, and I believe they were using Dillon Spray Lube. Some combination of thier press, die, brass, or lube must have been working well because those are the easiest cases that I have ever resized.



Marco Califo you say that you had a pipe for extra leverage! What kind of press were you using? I am amazed that the rim of the brass would hold up to that kind of force.

I use a Forster Co-Ax press with the universal shell holder jaws (not really universal, there are 4 sizes) and I often wonder if the jaws are really getting a good grip on the case head. I find that I can rip the rim off of a case with Very little effort. And usually its about half the rim that comes off, in two crescent moon shaped pieces (one from each side of the case) It always makes me wonder if a conventional shell holder would be gripping more of the rim (perhaps 3/4 of it, instead of 1/2) or if the grip would be more secure simply because the forster's claws are somewhat generic and designed for a "range of sizes" rather than one specific case head.
Granted I am a Big guy and forster claims that thier press has 3 times more mechanical advantage than the average C press. But then, they also say that full length sizing can be done with just one finger . . .
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Old September 7, 2012, 08:13 AM   #12
Marco Califo
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Those were machine gun fired 308. Yes I have ripped off case rims, stuck cases, and had RCBS send me replacement expander/pin assemblies. OK with motor oil. Much easier with the lithium grease. Lyman lube was only so so.
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Old September 7, 2012, 04:24 PM   #13
Mike40-11
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30-06 is the only caliber I've ever stuck in a die as well. Ensuring lubrication inside the case mouth was what solved it for me. I run a nylon brush with a little Uniqe wiped on it inside every case.

You can easily feel the difference between adequate and insufficient inside lube when lowering the ram.
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Old September 7, 2012, 06:50 PM   #14
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I normally take a old .22 cleaning brush and after getting the cases out of the tumbler, I'll take the brush and just run it into the case mouth a couple times to get any residue off that may be there, then I take a q-tip and lightly coat it with mink oil shoe polish, run that inside the case mouth, lightly lube the case bodies with fingers that have mink oil polish.

I've never had one stick doing this. Knock in wood. Seems to work great though.
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Old September 7, 2012, 09:15 PM   #15
ky hunter
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Try a carbide expander ball on your decap pin Hornady is the one I use It sure helps it's in the neck were you have problems. Take your decap pin out along with your expander button see if it sizes better then replace it and try the same case. See if that tales you were to go from there.It maybe just the expander button. If it gets stuck on push it needs more lube on the out side of the case if on the pull lube inside neck.
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Old September 8, 2012, 09:01 AM   #16
hooligan1
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Out four maybe five thousand rifle cartridges handloaded between me and my sons, I have never had to once use my RCBS case-puller, I use a RCBS case-lube pad and RCBS case lube. knock on wood!
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