The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 28, 2012, 03:48 PM   #1
Gunnut17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 394
Is There Any Possible Situation Where a Pistol is Superior to a Long Gun or SMG

Hi, me again, let me just say in advance, I am aware getting tactic ideas from a video game is ridiculous, but this poses an interesting question.

Now, in the 2010 video game, Splinter Cell: Conviction(An awesome title, I might add.), the main character is almost always using a pistol, instead of the submachine gun, shotgun, or assault/battle rifle that is often hanging on his back. And it made me wonder why someone would use a semi-automatic, low capacity pistol(Such as a USP45 or Desert Eagle.), over a high capacity, select-fire, accessory compatible, often easier to shoot, longer ranged rifle, SMG or shotgun(SCAR-H, MP7A1, Benneli M3 Super 90). Is there any situation where a pistol with a suppressor is better?

Mods, feel free to move this as necessary.

Thanks!
__________________
________(====()_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-,
I_iiiii__/'''''''''[{]''''''''{_)_)_)_)_)_}========

"|Pistol calibers| all suck, so pick the one you shoot best."
Gunnut17 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 03:59 PM   #2
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,479
Massad Ayoob gave an actual case he experienced . Going down a very steep slope he had to hold onto branches with one hand while he shot at the perp IIRC.
Give it some thought and you'll realize that there may be many such cases .
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 04:25 PM   #3
Woody55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2012
Location: East Texas
Posts: 407
When moving through wreckage - like a badly bombed building - a pistol for at least the guy on point is not a bad idea. Like the post above, there are times when you need a hand to help you move. There are people behind you with heavier weapons.

Also, while not in video games and probably not much of a concern to you, when you go into someone's home or office and are - at least in principle - supposed to be friends, a holstered pistol makes a better impression than an assault rifle slung at the low ready.
Woody55 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 05:25 PM   #4
WV_gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 703
Try to walk around downtown carrying a Draco pistol or a short shotgun, I'm sure quite a few 911 calls will be made. A regular pistol might get you some weird looks, but at least you won't be hassled by the police.
Another situation, a weapon shooting rifle rounds at close range isnt going to be very effective.
Only situation I can think of wanting something other than a regular pistol is maybe home defense, but only shooting weak shotgun loads or if it's rifle use handgun rounds. But even then, a handgun still has some benefits.
Why use a lower capacity handgun instead of a higher capacity one? Maybe balance, or the feel of the gun. It's just what some people prefer.

I think the perfect close range rifle would be the Thompson or something similar to it. Short, higher capacity, and a big yet slow bullet.
WV_gunner is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 05:35 PM   #5
Creeper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Woooooshington
Posts: 1,797
Quote:
the main character is almost always using a pistol
Correct me if I'm wrong on this but...
He's a mostly indoors, close up and personal, information thief, assassin, escape artist... right?
And he wears a "stealth suit" where he can be nearly invisible... yes?
He can also effectively stab, throat cut and karate chop someone too... correct?

So why carry all that clanky, weighty hardware and ammo if he doesn't have to?
I always laugh when a protagonist is allowed to carry a pistol, SMG, assault rifle and sniper rifle... plus hundreds of rounds for all. And 3 kinds of grenades, and really nice binoculars, and 5 first aid kits.

C
__________________
Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club
Creeper is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 05:42 PM   #6
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,566
Best example: tunnel rats in Viet Nam, . . . used .22 auto pistol in at least some cases.

Personally, . . . would much rather have my 1911 for CQB if we are talking bad breath distance or shortly ouside of that.

Handgun is sooooooooo much easier to maneuver and protect.

YMMV, . . . but even in the service, . . . I preferred a handgun when I could get away with it.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:02 PM   #7
SatCong
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2004
Location: Twangtown
Posts: 175
Gunfight in a phone booth!

Mike
SatCong is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:07 PM   #8
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Posts: 1,496
Any close quarter combat.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابي
TXAZ is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:09 PM   #9
Gunnut17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 394
Quote:
Gunfight in a phone booth!
What are you talking about?

Anyway, I do see everyone's points, whenever I play Splinter Cell: Double Agent(less awesome title.), I almost always use the pistol, it's quieter than the 5.56mm rounds in the rifle, and can be used while holding a hostage or from a pipe, while maintaining near identical accuracy to the rifle. Though I do prefer hand-to-hand kills.
__________________
________(====()_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-,
I_iiiii__/'''''''''[{]''''''''{_)_)_)_)_)_}========

"|Pistol calibers| all suck, so pick the one you shoot best."
Gunnut17 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:10 PM   #10
BarryLee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 2,787
In your house or car.
__________________
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:11 PM   #11
Catfishman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 694
Quote:
Handgun is sooooooooo much easier to maneuver and protect.
Yes and I think the protect part is often overlooked. The shotgun is supposed to be the best home defense weapon, but I have read many stories that included two men wrestling over a shotgun or rifle.
Catfishman is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:13 PM   #12
orionengnr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2004
Posts: 5,024
Quote:
Is There Any Possible Situation Where a Pistol is Superior to a Long Gun or SMG?
Yes, and many of us are faced with that situation every day.
It is called "concealed carrying"... it is not possible to conceal a rifle or a shotgun (okay, nothing is impossible...but it is highly impractical).

Carrying a handgun every day, everywhere legal to do so...that is the situation where a pistol is superior.

Even if it were the only one...it's a biggie. It allows me to go armed, every day, with no-one the wiser.
orionengnr is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:21 PM   #13
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,709
A lot of that depends on your tactics, training and the situation you are faced with. It is always nice to have the option. A holstered pistol is usually faster into action than a slung long gun. A pistol can be easily controlled with one hand, and thus allows the use of the other hand for other tasks.

I do not carry low cap handguns anymore for anything but hunting or a BUG.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:36 PM   #14
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,544
Situation where a pistol is better then a long gun???

Based on my experience I can think of a few. In SE Asia we had to crawl through tunnels built to be used by littel fellows. There wasn't room for a rifle, you crawled through on your belly with a flash light in one and in a 1911s1 in the other. Bearly room to use the pistol, it would have been impossible for a rifle.

In LE, be did our own building searches, most of the time alone. Every time I tried to take a shotgun it ended up being in the way, you have too many other things to do with your free hand.

I carried a Model 28, I found that if it was in range of a shot gun, I'm well within in range of my revolver. If I'm out of the range of the shot gun, I 'm still in range with my revolver.

Sure there are plenty of times where the rifle is better, but any time I had to actually use my pistol/revolver, I never felt under gunned.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:39 PM   #15
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: IN
Posts: 1,799
Close quarters - i.e. inside a house with lots of hallways and turns.
__________________
"You haven't lived until you've died." - various
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:49 PM   #16
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,709
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong on this but...
He's a mostly indoors, close up and personal, information thief, assassin, escape artist... right?
And he wears a "stealth suit" where he can be nearly invisible... yes?
He can also effectively stab, throat cut and karate chop someone too... correct?

So why carry all that clanky, weighty hardware and ammo if he doesn't have to?
Love the splinter cell game series, and your pretty much spot on. In the Splinter Cell series Sam Fisher is a SIGINT ninja, ill go through most levels without firing a single shot.

Man do I sound like a nerd but I am not ashamed to say I still love video games.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:57 PM   #17
Creeper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Woooooshington
Posts: 1,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragline45
Love the splinter cell game series
I've been going through colon cancer, so I haven't gotten out much in the past year or so.
My wife (bless her evil little heart), recently bought me an Xbox 360 'cause my computer is getting long in the tooth and I have issues with the newer games.

I have the first few Splinter Cells for PC... and this thread reminded me how great Splinter Cell is. The best part is now I'm gonna' go to Game Stop and buy all the Splinter Cell games... used for about $30.

What better thing to do for a Creeper... than creep around, right?

C
__________________
Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club
Creeper is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 07:26 PM   #18
Strafer Gott
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,143
If onlies don't count!

With a 6" Highway patrolman and some full house loads in hand, you will out range most shotguns with ease. Problem lies with most scenarios where a handgun applies, you are well within 12 gauge effective range. Barrier penetration is probably another avenue for advantage. Take cover, then demonstrate the difference between cover and concealment. All of this works much better in a gaming environment. No reset in a gun fight. I still dig the model 28, though. I just don't know about being able to beat a seal with an MP5.
Strafer Gott is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 08:50 PM   #19
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,556
My present abode does not lend itself to using long guns, and a pistol is much preferred. It is rather small, on 3 levels, and pardon the expression, full of crap, and my EDC suffices perfectly. My new house is larger, all on one level, and rather sprawling, endearing to me use of the long gun. I have both shotgun and carbine, am proficient with both, so it's just a matter of which I'll prefer when I move. And I won't have the clutter in the new place, I promise.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 09:00 PM   #20
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,109
Quote:
Gunfight in a phone booth!

What are you talking about?
Dunno ...mehbe he's waiting in the phone booth ..... gonna ambush me when I jump in there to change into my Superman get-up!
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 09:26 PM   #21
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,308
Quote:
Is There Any Possible Situation Where a Pistol is Superior to a Long Gun or SMG
Lots of situations. Any place you can't carry or swing a long gun or subgun.

Try using a subgun on a guy in the back seat of your car while you drive. Try to use a longer gun while ridding the DART (or even carry one.) Try getting that long gun while eating at a diner. Oh heck man, unless you can drag that long gun around with you all day (legally) you will see the handgun has it's place cause it's the only one you can conceal.

Deaf
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old August 28, 2012, 11:31 PM   #22
R1145
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 343
Everything is a trade-off

You use a pistol because that's what you carry all day. In a fight, you use it to fight to your long gun, but it would be superior in very close quarters, or in a possible gun retention scenario. Likewise, you can use a pistol one-handed, and have the use of your other hand, whereas a long gun is essentially a two-handed weapon (though a sling can help at times).

For power, accuracy, etc., the long gun is better, but the handgun may be adequate.
R1145 is offline  
Old August 29, 2012, 12:37 AM   #23
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,479
Gunfight in a phone booth ? The most bizarre radio talk show incident -a caller was phoning from a booth and was mugged , twice , by two different mugers ! The victim had no gun[NYC] so just gave up his money.
A very potentially dangerous place is an elevator.You can't run and a gun, knife ,or even fists can easily be used against you.
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old August 29, 2012, 10:29 PM   #24
SPEMack618
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2010
Location: Central Georgia
Posts: 1,501
There is no way in heck that I could use a shotgun properly in my apt. So pistol it is for HD.
__________________
NRA Life Member
Big Sister: "You should be sponsored by Allen"
Me: "If you can't shoot good, at least look good walking to the firing line."
Big Sister: "Can you not afford a Pelican? Then buy an Allen gun bag."
SPEMack618 is offline  
Old August 30, 2012, 01:52 AM   #25
Young.Gun.612
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 400
When the long gun and smg are empty?
Young.Gun.612 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13432 seconds with 9 queries