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Old September 8, 2012, 01:56 AM   #1
Redhawk5.5+P+
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Try this!!!

While your dry firing your gun, rifle or handgun, try over and over to go to 75% pull without it actually breaking. Do it over and over until it breaks.

Just keep pulling over and over letting up when you think you hit the 3/4 mark until it breaks.

Just try it if you understand what I'm talking about. I'd call it dry firing without actually breaking.

Saves on your finger too.

FYI, I've been doing this this with my new Jackpot gun, a Glock 20 SF.
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Old September 8, 2012, 07:42 AM   #2
doingMach1
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What is the purpose for that? I've never heard of it.
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Old September 8, 2012, 07:47 AM   #3
Sparks1957
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Quote:
Just try it if you understand what I'm talking about. I'd call it dry firing without actually breaking.
Saves on your finger too
Uh, OK. Can you tell why this is valuable, other than learning about finger tension and control whiich might have some value.... isn't the actual firing the point of operating a trigger?
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Old September 8, 2012, 08:30 AM   #4
kraigwy
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Quote:
What is the purpose for that? I've never heard of it.
It would teach trigger control, the most important aspect of the fundamentals of marksmanship.

This is not a new concept. Capt Edward Crossman talks of this in his book. "Military and Sproting Rifle Shooting" that came out just after WWI.

Col Macnab, who was commissioned by Gen Pershing to come up with a marksmanship program because of our poor preformance when we entered WWI. Col Macnab's program is what is taught in the CMP's Small Arms Firing Schools at Camp Perry and other major CMP Games. Macnab talks of this.

Townsend Whelen talks about this also in his books. Gary Anderson, Olympic Medal winner and holder of the International Rifle Offhand Record, Chief instructor of the CMP GSM Master Instructor Course talks about this.

It certainly isn't a new concept.

It is critical in off hand shooting where we win or loose matches.

None of us can hold a rifle or pistol perfectly still. We have a wobble areas, some more then others but the prinicpal is the same. Basicly Crossman and Macnab tell us (after getting a good position and natural point of aim) to aim at the target and squeeze the trigger as the sight passed over the target, stop squeezing, but hold what you have, as the sights wobble off the target, then squeeze again as you pass back over the target, stop, squeeze, etc until you reach the end and the rifle fires.

It takes a lot of practice to do this, and I think the OPs ideal would help accomplish this.

Regardless how solid your fundamentals are, it just takes a smiggin movement of the rifle by poor trigger control to screw up everything. About .001 inch movement of the rifles sights to get off 1 MOA at 100 yards (with a 24 inch sight radius, OR .013 inch of error to move the pistol round 1 inch at 25 yards with a 4 inch sight radius.

Neither error mentioned isn't great and I doubt most of use can detect such movement. But its compounded to maybe .004 or .043, also hard to see means 4 inchs movement of the impact. The only thing we can do is work on our trigger control.
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Last edited by kraigwy; September 8, 2012 at 08:36 AM.
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Old September 8, 2012, 08:35 AM   #5
Sparks1957
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I certainly see your point, kraig, but still think that triggger control without the break and follow-through has limited usefulness.
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Old September 8, 2012, 08:54 AM   #6
4V50 Gary
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It's called trigger time. When you can't go to the range and you need to practice at home, it can be useful. However, I'd use the precaution of inserting a snap cap to protect the firing pin.
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Old September 9, 2012, 02:53 AM   #7
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At about 300 pulls now, seem to be smoothing out I guess. It's hard to tell because it's so progresive. It's did smooth out the first 20-30 pulls right away.

I'm not real worried about the firing pin, it's a new Glock (G20SF), and if it did break, well, it's a Glock, so lots of after market pins and more out there from what I've seen.
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Old September 9, 2012, 03:11 AM   #8
JohnKSa
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There's more to think about than just firing pins.





There's dryfiring and then there's dryfiring, and it's worthwhile to understand the difference.

Dryfiring won't hurt most guns, they're designed to shrug off the occasional snap, and most will even tolerate reasonable amounts of dryfire practice.

Dryfiring hundreds or thousands of times is hard on nearly any gun--after all, everything wears out eventually.

Just to be clear, I dryfire a LOT. But I do what I can to try to ameliorate the likely effects of constant dryfiring. And I understand that dryfiring is wear on the gun and will likely eventually have some sort of negative effect. I tend to do most of my dryfire practice with hammer-fired guns and use a snap-cap as well as some method of cushioning the hammer fall.

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Old September 9, 2012, 11:40 AM   #9
spanishjames
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JohnKSa: What are we looking at in the top two pictures?
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Old September 9, 2012, 03:14 PM   #10
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Two different Glock slides with the breechfaces broken out/cracked from the inside due to excessive dryfiring.

The third picture shows a rubber "O-Ring" slipped into the hammer channel of the slide of an autopistol to cushion the fall of the hammer.

They are not pictures of my firearms nor did I take the pictures myself, just to clarify.
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Old September 9, 2012, 04:05 PM   #11
doingMach1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy View Post
It would teach trigger control, the most important aspect of the fundamentals of marksmanship.

This is not a new concept. Capt Edward Crossman talks of this in his book. "Military and Sproting Rifle Shooting" that came out just after WWI.

Col Macnab, who was commissioned by Gen Pershing to come up with a marksmanship program because of our poor preformance when we entered WWI. Col Macnab's program is what is taught in the CMP's Small Arms Firing Schools at Camp Perry and other major CMP Games. Macnab talks of this.

Townsend Whelen talks about this also in his books. Gary Anderson, Olympic Medal winner and holder of the International Rifle Offhand Record, Chief instructor of the CMP GSM Master Instructor Course talks about this.

It certainly isn't a new concept.

It is critical in off hand shooting where we win or loose matches.

None of us can hold a rifle or pistol perfectly still. We have a wobble areas, some more then others but the prinicpal is the same. Basicly Crossman and Macnab tell us (after getting a good position and natural point of aim) to aim at the target and squeeze the trigger as the sight passed over the target, stop squeezing, but hold what you have, as the sights wobble off the target, then squeeze again as you pass back over the target, stop, squeeze, etc until you reach the end and the rifle fires.

It takes a lot of practice to do this, and I think the OPs ideal would help accomplish this.

Regardless how solid your fundamentals are, it just takes a smiggin movement of the rifle by poor trigger control to screw up everything. About .001 inch movement of the rifles sights to get off 1 MOA at 100 yards (with a 24 inch sight radius, OR .013 inch of error to move the pistol round 1 inch at 25 yards with a 4 inch sight radius.

Neither error mentioned isn't great and I doubt most of use can detect such movement. But its compounded to maybe .004 or .043, also hard to see means 4 inchs movement of the impact. The only thing we can do is work on our trigger control.
Interesting....only concern I would have would be the repetitive partial trigger pull might unintentionally train your muscles improperly. But I can see the benefit as long as plenty of standard full trigger pulls are practiced as well.

But I'm no expert.....just coming from a martial arts background where muscle memory and instinctive reaction is practiced, I can see a minor flaw in the theory. In an emergency scenario, under pressure and high volumes of adrenalin, I would hate to inadvertently squeeze the trigger only 3/4 of the way and then miss-aim the firearm when trying to correct the mistake.
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Old September 9, 2012, 04:12 PM   #12
spanishjames
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I like the idea of the O ring in the hammer channel of the slide. I'll just have to remember to take it out after dry fire practice.
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Old September 10, 2012, 12:13 AM   #13
drail
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Oh my God, he uses a rubber! It's just not the same no matter how safe it may be.
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Old September 10, 2012, 12:47 AM   #14
sigcurious
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I've done this a bit. I forget what source it was I found out about it from, but it came from a youtube video put out by "insert team name here" shooter doing videos for "insert sponsor company here". Seems to help with trigger control
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Old September 11, 2012, 05:31 AM   #15
Redhawk5.5+P+
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My Glock 20 SF

Quote:
Two different Glock slides with the breechfaces broken out/cracked from the inside due to excessive dryfiring.

The third picture shows a rubber "O-Ring" slipped into the hammer channel of the slide of an autopistol to cushion the fall of the hammer.

They are not pictures of my firearms nor did I take the pictures myself, just to clarify.
Excessive dry firing I will not do, do to lack of patience and inattentiveness. LOL

Good enough for now, I'm still waiting for the 6.6" 10mm and the 6" 9X25 barrel's to come in next month. Ordered on 8-17-12 ETA 10th OCT. The long slide is in, but what good is it without the barrels? Ohh, and the cool compensator and the grip extention. Pics will be coming.
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Old September 11, 2012, 01:40 PM   #16
taz1
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I would think it might lead to musle memory that is deficent. Not real good in a real situation where you need instinct to carry you through a tramatic encounter.

I could be wrong as I have never dry fired a gun. I just step out back and shoot real bullets into and old stump if I don't feel like walking back to the creek range
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