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Old September 6, 2012, 05:54 PM   #26
phacious
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This all happen because was lazy/over-eager. I already loaded a few following the instructions for the seating die and shot them with no trouble. I simply put the die back on without checking if it was properly installed. As far as the case length goes, what do I need to acquire? I just ordered .45 ACP dies and will probably get .223 equipment soon. Anything mandatory for these calibers?
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Old September 6, 2012, 06:49 PM   #27
overthere
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I did the exact same thing you did with 50 rounds of 223. I messed up with the bullet seating die, squishing the shoulder of the cases on a lot of the 50 rounds.

What I did was to use a Frankford Arsenal Bullet Puller to pull the bullets. This in itself was a big pain in the you know what for some of the cases, perhaps because I had crimped the bullets.

http://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arse...=bullet+puller

Anyway, after pulling the bullets and salvaging the powder I de-primed the cases using my Lee universal decapper. For the first one I was really nervous, I put a towel over the press to catch the blast just in case but all of them de-primed really easily. I have since de-primed other cases with live primers (mainly from crimps not being fully removed, causing the primer to get stuck half-way) and at this point decapping live primers does not concern me very much. Of course I always use eye protection and a light touch but in my experience they extract real easily.

After de-priming the 223 cases I resized them with the full-size die and they were back to spec, no issues. I even re-used the primers and they all fired without any issues whatsoever.

If I was to find myself in the same situation again (hopefully not) I would remove the decapping pin from my full-size die and just do a full resize with the primers in the case.

In short, in my experience with squished shoulders for 223 I had no issue whatsoever resizing them back to spec and I have had no issues removing live primers (I always use eye protection and an easy touch).
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Old September 6, 2012, 06:53 PM   #28
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Here`s my input on rifle loading ,mind ya I shoot a limited amount of bolt ammo.

I clean my brass inspect necks & for incipient head seperation .

Lube with RCBS II case lube & push the shoulder back just enuff for reliable feeding/chambering, wash the lube off with hot water & dawn, dry cases .

Check length/trimm as nessacery, clean primer pockets, flare/expand mouths for lead bullets.

Clean again in corncob ( I like shiney clean brass) unplug primer holes .

Seat primers ,drop powder

Raise the case in the press screw die down until it (crimping step)touches the mouth, then back it out 1/2 turn ,lock it .

Seat bullet to length ,weither it has no cannalure/or does ,crimping groove/or not.

Screw seating plug up so not to touch bullet ,unlock die then adjust crimp to needs .

Just always start each step of seating/crimping with the case raised to it`s highest point .

I batch load & I do this for as few as 5 rounds or as many as 200.

No biggie on salvaging stuff , some brass will form back some won`t, just use caution & common sense including safety gear

I do use my reclaimed primer for non critical uses but mine all went bang to !
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Old September 6, 2012, 08:49 PM   #29
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Brian it's in plain black and white... Wild willly I use "handloaded ammo" because it's better than commercial,you have no dog in this fight, so fall off the edge of the world and mash your finger young man. And guess what boy's I have all my fingers and both my eyes! I have been doing this at a very safe level for years.

Why would you tell a novice that it's Okay to decap live primers when the book says no....

PM me please.
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:12 PM   #30
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Crushing cases is why I originally started crimping in a seperate step.

I put a case on the shellholder, run the ram all the way up, then I screw the seating die in until it touches the top of the case with the stem screw out until I can see threads. Usually, I back the seating die out about a 1/2 turn and lock it. It's usually enough to get the bell out of pistol cases, but won't crimp. Seating depth is easily control by screwing the stem down.

All the crimping is done with a Lee factory crimp die for both rifle and pistol, which is pretty easy to adjust.

I've loaded thousands of rounds this way. No problems. I've never crushed a case since.
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:31 PM   #31
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hooligan, the warnings about not de-capping live primers are hyperbolized for insurance purposes, aimed at the least common denominator type people who act the fool and then try to get others to pay for their own foolishness. They even say to not use reloaded ammo. DO you follow that rule? lol.

Even though common sense doesn't seem to be very common anymore, realize that there are billions of people. So even if a small percentage only has enough common sense to approach the task with some caution, that's easily millions of people. I have de-capped prolly hundreds of live primers over the years without ever setting one off.

Primers are detonated with a quick sharp blow to them, as a firing pin (or decapping pin). If you ease the pin gently against the primer and push it out slowly, there is very little chance of it going off. If it were really as dangerous as they say, then it wouldn't be safe to lower the hammer onto a live round on a gun, because the firing pin usually touches the primer. If a person can not do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling weapons at all.

If one is inept or newbie to reloading, it's good advice to go by the book. But as an advanced reloader, I can say to the author of that book...There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:47 PM   #32
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan1
Brian it's in plain black and white... Wild willly I use "handloaded ammo" because it's better than commercial,you have no dog in this fight, so fall off the edge of the world and mash your finger young man. And guess what boy's I have all my fingers and both my eyes! I have been doing this at a very safe level for years.

Why would you tell a novice that it's Okay to decap live primers when the book says no....

PM me please.
There's nothing here that requires a PM.

Decapping a live primer is simply not a big deal. I know what the books say. As I pointed out, they also say to never buy once fired brass and never exceed their max loads, even when other books might have starting loads higher than their max load.

A couple of small safety precautions and it's PERFECTLY safe. A primer is not a grenade. Even if it goes off, it's going to scare the crap out of you and make your decapping pin black. It's not going to kill or even maim you.

As Willy points out, many firearms manuals specifically state not to use reloads, it's right there in black and white, and you (and millions of others of us) happily ignore that warning.

Really, decapping live primers is NOT a big deal. Safety glasses, ear plugs and gentleness is all that's required.
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:49 PM   #33
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"Wildwillie:
Since you said you are new to reloading and only have a few loaded. I'd just put them in a box well marked with what they are and taped shut.Then when you get a bullet puller someday you can pull them.It doesn't pay to get one for a couple shells.If you keep loading you will probably get(need) one."

I vote for this.

I did this from the time I started reloading in the 60's until a few months ago (took about a 40 year hietus.)

Finally bought a kinetic for $20. So far I have saved $3.79 with the bullets and cases I have salvaged.

Don't most rifle dies have a depriming pin that can be removed and the expander left in?

If you started with the Lee Classic loader, you probably popped a few primers. Usually needed to change underwear but no permanent damage.
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Old September 6, 2012, 10:23 PM   #34
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I was surprized nobody said this earlier^^^^
I've had to remove the pin from my RCBS dies on a few occations.Plus some like Hornady also have 2 different sized pins that you can change out.Also what do you do when a pin breaks?? Oh ya, replace the pin. So to the OP, just unscrew the knob on the expander stem and take the pin out , if you can't just back it out far enough without having the expander ball in the neck at the same time as the outside is being sized down.
As far as not depriming a live primer, WOW. how big of a bang(or damage) can a little primer do? I have played around and hit some questionable ones with a hammer on the concrete floor(safety glasses of course),they are just little firecrackers. It's sole purpose is to provide a hot flame to ignite the powder, it has very,very,very little pressure or "explosive"(if you can call it that) properties.
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Old September 6, 2012, 11:13 PM   #35
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Oldpapps is right on the money. What I'm missing here is a good reason to deprime the brass in the first place????? Simply get a bullet puller, either inertia type or collet (my preference), pull the bullets and salvage the powder, then remove the depriming PIN from the stem and reattach the expnding button, then just resize the brass and reload it. It's that simple. No need to make this any harder than it is.

Oh yeah, get a copy of The ABC's of Reloading and read it all. And next time, load just 1 or 2 rounds before checking them over carefully before you load up a bunch of unusable ammo. We've all done this before, just learn from it.
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Old September 6, 2012, 11:33 PM   #36
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I'm at a loss to understand how sizing it again will fix it. Are you counting on the expander button to pull the shoulder forward again? Sounds iffy to me.
If it doesn't work then de-cap it so you can get clean price for the brass.
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Old September 7, 2012, 06:12 AM   #37
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Im kinda with Edward on this one. At the price of 308 brass. Throw it away and move on. Not sure what they cost there,but here in MN i get 50 for $20.00 plus tax. I cant see fixing that in a press. To me it will always be a weak spot in the brass. You can take a bent piece of metal and pound it flat again,but it's not right.
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Old September 7, 2012, 08:03 AM   #38
Dave P
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Do the slightly damaged cases fit easily in your chamber?

If so, just shoot them. This solves all issues with live primers, damaged powder (Huh?), case resizing, pulling bullets.
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Old September 7, 2012, 08:37 AM   #39
F. Guffey
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I agree with William T. Watts:

nothing like waking up in a new world every morning.

The only way to bulge a case at or below the shoulder is with a seating die, the die must be adjusted to crimp and or not to crimp, crimping is just a touch of the die at the mouth of the case, when crimping, cases must be trimmed to one length, if in the discipline of reloading trimming is something a reloader just “HATES TO DO” avoid crimping.

When I reach for a die the Lee die is the last die for consideration, I have Lee dies, I do not use them.

Practice, practice, practice, If I want a 308 W/7.62 NATO to fit a chamber I form it from a 30/06 case, if I want a set of head space gages? for a 308W/7.62 NATO chamber I make them in length from .012” shorter than a minimum length case that is the same length as a full length sized case on the short side to infinity on the long side, or a more practice .014” longer than a minimum length size case from the head of the case to the shoulder of the case.

When I adjust my seating die I place the case into the shell holder, raise the ram then adjust the crimping portion of the die down to the case mouth “THEN!!!’ back the die out to prevent crimping of the case mouth to the bullet. Long before the INTERNET Lyman discouraged crimping of bottle neck cases, point? Discipline. A reloader is wasting their time crimping if they are not going to adjust the seating die to crimp, the reloader is wasting their time if they are not going to trim the cases to the same length. Before the INTERNET Lyman knew seating with a crimp reduced bullet hold if not done correctly. Even then reloaders practiced and practiced and then practiced some more, nothing has changed, it is not practice that makes perfect, it is possible to practice and never get ‘it’ correct or perfect, The only way to get ‘it’ perfect is to practice it correctly.

Correct practice makes perfect.

As to ‘what to do’? The case is bulges, the case has been squatted, the neck has expanded below the crimp/mouth of the case, again, the seating die does not have case support. Seating a bullet is but a breath of effort on the handle. There is something to Dillon’s philosophy of seating should be done with a separation operation, they gave me an exemption, I was not going to start over with Dillon dies and adap ‘TER’ kits. Back to the bit inning, I use a powder lock out die and or a powder die.

There is no shortage of cases around here, 308 Winchester cases can not cost me more than .08 cents each, rather than talk about reloading, I purchased case forming dies, my favorite case forming/trim die is the 308 W. If I had one forming die it would be the 308 Winchester forming/trim die, it is my favorite forming die because it is short, means nothing to anyone else but when the reloader/wildcatter/case formers masters the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die doors open, others? Seems the concept just locks them up or forces them to the curb.

Back to practice, I would pull the bullets , dump the powder then remove the primer punch from the expander plug/primer punch assemble then size the cases. I would suggest measuring the length of the case before and again after, the case when sized will get longer. I would then measure and then dump the powder into the case, adjust the seating die off the case to prevent crimping, I would then seat a bullet. The shoulder bulge when sized is supported in the chamber when fired, case separation is caused by bad habits, of my bad habits, sizing a case incorrectly is not one of them, nor is creating conditions when sizing a case that allows case travel.

F. Guffey

Last edited by F. Guffey; September 7, 2012 at 08:45 AM.
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Old September 7, 2012, 10:07 AM   #40
mehavey
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Quote:
I'm at a loss to understand how sizing it again will fix it.
Are you counting on the expander button to pull the
shoulder forward again?
It's not chambering because the shoulder is bulged, i.e., case diameter has been pushed out at that point.

Sizing will push the case shoulder back in, the brass will go where it has freedom of movement to go -- forward,
and all's right w/ the world.
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Old September 7, 2012, 12:42 PM   #41
wild willy
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Hooligan1 I'am not a young man. I have a right to my opinion same as you.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; September 7, 2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Wee Bit Fiesty
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Old September 8, 2012, 08:57 AM   #42
hooligan1
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Post # 7 dunerjeff, And willy I mean no disrespect, Brian Phlueger, same goes for you, I got wound up, I apologize,

When a newbie handloader asks technical questions on this forum I feel obligated to furnish the best and safest info, I can. that's what this is all about.
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Old September 8, 2012, 12:34 PM   #43
dunerjeff
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Non taken, I know where your coming from and why you pushed it. Most cases that is the only correct way, this is one that can go either way,experience helps us stay safe.
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