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Old September 9, 2012, 09:25 AM   #51
Marquezj16
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You just missed their Labor Day Sale. Prices were ridiculously low. I paid $279 for an assembled upper (6.8 SPC II, 18" SS barrel, no BCG or CH). They had blemished lowers for $59 and new for $99.

Prices are back up to regular level but they are still pretty good. A lot of items are sold out due to the sale though.
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Old September 9, 2012, 12:40 PM   #52
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Small shop with high volume sales... so getting through to CS is a pain. When you do get them, they fix the issue.

The Uppers are made to order... so they take a while. That is were most seem to have issues.

If you look to other manufactures for the uppers, and get the basic parts and lower from PSA, you will probably have less wait/problems.
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Old September 10, 2012, 03:33 PM   #53
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Oh and forgot to answer one of the questions I was asked. I want this rifle to be able to shoot 1 moa groups at 100 yards.
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Old September 10, 2012, 03:57 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosteddc5 View Post
Oh and forgot to answer one of the questions I was asked. I want this rifle to be able to shoot 1 moa groups at 100 yards.
Many ARs can do this, but it is easier to get an MOA capable rifle with a broader range of ammo when you get into rifles with 20" barrels. With cheap off-the-shelf ammo, it is hit and miss. If you hand load, most every AR will shoot MOA at 100 yards.

This requirement will not cause either the Windham or the PSA to be crossed off of your list.

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Old September 10, 2012, 04:09 PM   #55
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Oh and forgot to answer one of the questions I was asked. I want this rifle to be able to shoot 1 moa groups at 100 yards.
This has WAY more to do with the shooter and the ammunition used that it does the rifle.

Are YOU capable of shooting into 1" or less at 100 yards? (Most people aren't)

You also won't likely won't get this using surplus XM855 or XM193 blasting ammo either. Particularly XM855, which can have inconsistencies with manufacturing that make it more likely to be even less accurate.

You will hear a lot of people talk about their sub MOA rifle, particularly on the internet.

But most of them are only shooting 3 shot groups, if that, and picking their best group.
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Old September 10, 2012, 04:28 PM   #56
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You will need quality ammo to shoot that well with mil-spec type ARs. Maybe even hand loads. Regular ammo will give 2-3 MOA or so, cheap ammo may open up more.

Non-chrome lined is better for a wider range of ammo that will shoot accurate. Nitrided barrels like I said are just as accurate as non-chrome lined. The Nitriding process has different names for different companies.

An 18-20" barrel is best for accuracy. Also, longer than 20" is probably a waste.

Also personal skill is very very important.
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Old September 10, 2012, 04:57 PM   #57
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I agree completly with the last few post . I can shoot 1 MOA with little EVIL . Thats the black one in the pictures ,but just barlely with Fed gold metal match .All other ammo I've shot had 2 MOA at best UMC , PMC , XM193 , Winchester something , all cheap ammo .I have a stock trigger in it and I think I might do a little better with a nice match trigger . I have to really concentrate cus there is so much travel in the trigger . So 1 MOA on a budget may be pushing it . Don't get me wrong it can be done , it's just tuff . You better know how to shoot . Your not going to just plop your AR down take a deep breath and rip off 5 shots in a 1 inch group . it's going to take some effort .

EDIT -- Those groups were shot using a front and rear bag . The gun may do better on a sled , but thats the best I could do . I have the new Ruger American Rifle and I can shoot 1 MOA no problem with that .

Here is my review on it and a few others Check out statik's review # 20

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492169

Last edited by Metal god; September 10, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
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Old September 10, 2012, 05:29 PM   #58
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Yeah, even if you drop $2500+ in the ultimate AR sniper setup... you need the skill to shoot it well. A poor shot will not gain much from the extra cost/accuracy potential... you may not even be able to tell if they switched to a different rifle just by looking at groups.
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Old September 10, 2012, 06:34 PM   #59
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Spikes... less than $800

Another good option.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...fle&groupid=11
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Old September 10, 2012, 11:43 PM   #60
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I did mean 1 moa with good match ammo and on a sled, not just with cheap surplus m855 or off hand. I have been able to shoot 1 moa a few times with a friends bushmaster varminter from sand bags, but thats a 24" barrel rifle, using handloaded ammo.
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Old September 11, 2012, 01:42 AM   #61
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I think your on the right track . I would just get a good quality 16", mid length , heavy barrel , flat top AR for your first one . Then learn all about it and build a BAD AZZ one next . That's right , next one . There like Lays potato chips , you can't just stop at one . But thats me .
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Old September 11, 2012, 03:59 PM   #62
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Im about to build two... but getting a third lower for just in case.
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Old September 12, 2012, 08:04 AM   #63
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I was thinking about ordering an extra lower from PSA regardless of which rifle I go with also lol. Still deciding whether or not I want a 1-9 twist or a 1-7 though. What would you all prefer for shooting bullets from 55-77 grain? The reason I say 77 grain is for the sierra match kings. If I did 1-9 I would just use 69 grain smk's but I figured I would just give a general blanket of 55-77. I don't think I'll shoot anything less than 55 grain or more than 77 grain so I'm trying to research which twist would be best. Will definitely be shooting a lot of surplus m855 for plinking though, as they're so cheap. But I'd still like to be able to shoot 55 grain factory ammo and for accuracy handloaded smk's from 69-77 grain and hornady bthp match bullets from 68-75 grain.
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Old September 12, 2012, 04:19 PM   #64
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1/7 will work with 55gr but not as well as 1/9... 1/9 will not work with 77gr very well, but the 1/7 does.

1/7 is what you want if 77gr is something you want to shoot. It may loose a little accuracy with the 55gr but not as much as trying 77gr in 1/9.
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Old September 12, 2012, 04:40 PM   #65
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Anyone have a SEMI only AR they are willing to sell for a decent price? For some reason I can't post in the classifieds. Not to threadjack..PMS are cool.

Good on you for your first AR build!
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:36 PM   #66
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Go with the 1-9 for the first one . Then maybe build another complete upper with a 18" to 20" 1-8 twist barrel .You then can just switch out uppers when you want to do some bench shooting . The 1-8 will shoot 55 t0 77 very well . Most if not all of your plinking ammo is going to be 55 grains .
My guess is you will do much more plinking then 100 to 300 yard bench shooting . I sure do . I'll shoot 80 rounds of the good stuff and 2 or 3 hundred rounds of the cheep stuff on a range visit or shooting day. If your reloading then that will change things , but if your buying off the shelf you won't want to be plinking with bullets that cost 75 cents to a dollar a shot . Ammo cost is the only reason I have not built a AR 10 yet . I can't afford plinking for almost a buck a shot . I have a 308 bolt gun and I love to take it out . It takes me about 1 to 1 1/2 hours to go through 80 or so rounds. with my bolt action . I can go through 80 rounds with my AR in about 5 min . Thats 225 bucks an hour . I make good money, but I don't make that good a money .

Last edited by Metal god; September 12, 2012 at 10:11 PM.
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:59 PM   #67
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I think 1:7 barrel will have you covered if you plan to shoot 55-77gr ammo. 1:7 twist is Milspec if I'm not mistaken and is usually used to shoot 62gr or heavier ammo.

1:9 is a good barrel twist too, but is normally used with lighter varmint rounds in 40-45gr. I've shot 45gr through my 16-inch 1:9 barrel with no issues although i'm not an MOA nut (still working on my marksmanship skills).

Buying 2 lowers at the same time is a good idea also, in case the bug hits you and you want to build your 2nd AR. It'll save you shipping costs and time in the long run.
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Old September 12, 2012, 09:11 PM   #68
Marquezj16
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1 in 7 will cover the ammo that you are planning to use.
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Old September 12, 2012, 10:37 PM   #69
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I honestly think I'd be better off getting the 1-7. I plan on using the federal m855 ammo (62 grain, long bullet) for most of my plinking as this ammo is only about 180 for 500 rounds. A little bit of the ammo I use might be 55 grain hornady v-max and 55 grain remington umc fmj because I can get those from a connection both for very very cheap. And I do plan on using handloaded 69/77 grain smk's and handloaded 68/75 grain hornady otm. I'd guess about 65% will be m855, 20% will be handloaded, and 15% will be the 55 grain hornady/remington. When I get my own loading equipment, the handloaded percentage will go up a decent amount. Seems like the faster 1-7 twist would be better. Also the PSA upper I plan to order is 1-7 so it's easy enough haha.
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Old September 13, 2012, 01:56 AM   #70
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Yea if your going to be shooting alot of the green tip and heavier bullets , and it sounds like you are , 1-7 is better . It's also my understanding that the mil-spec 1-7 is to stabilize the tracer rounds the military uses. Well it sounds like your just about ready to rock-n-roll on this .Your going to have alot of fun good luck
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Old September 13, 2012, 11:31 PM   #71
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Thanks man! Can't wait to get everything set up. Still just trying to find a gunsmith near me that can do the necessary modifications to the upper (shaving bayo lug and attaching muzzle brake) but no luck so far. Contacted PSA about it and they told me to order one with a low pro gas block but I do want the front sight post so I think I'll just keep on looking for a gunsmith that can do it. And just so everyone's clear I have decided on the PSA build. Just seems the best way I can get the rifle exactly how I want.
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Old September 13, 2012, 11:44 PM   #72
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I have decided on the PSA build. Just seems the best way I can get the rifle exactly how I want.
This.

It's what I did.

I put it together for less than $700 with tools I had around the house.

Works.
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Old September 14, 2012, 01:25 AM   #73
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I have a magpul flip up front and rear sights . you can get a set for about $70 or $80 You will need the rear sight no matter what unless your getting the carry handle . Here is what my sights look like up and down





I like the flip up sights so I can put a scope on it and keep the scope low and I'm still is able to see right over the sight when its down . Also when I have my red-dot on the gun I can co-witness the back up sights with the red-dot or if the red-dot fails I can still see right through the red-dot and use my iron sights no problem with no need to take the red-dot off .

That gun also has the YHM Todd Jerrett free float rail , PSA offers that rail in rifle length with the low profile gas block . Mine is a mid length with a two rail gas block just in front of it. I think they want $ 160 for the rifle length , mine cost me $145 at the gun show .I like it cus it does not have the quad rails the hole length . when you grab it with your hand to shoot it feels good and not all bumpy and uncomfertable. If you go with the YHM hand guard make sure you get the forearm end cap for it ( see pic below ).They will need to put it on before the brake gets pinned and welded . It finish's it off and keeps crap from getting down inside the hand guard .



And NEVER put the MBUS on your gas block

WOW I was just on PSA web site and they are out of stock on alot of stuff . . I also could only find the Todd Jerrett Option if you buy a stainless steel barrel .
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Old September 14, 2012, 01:34 AM   #74
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WOW I was just on PSA web site and they are out of stock on alot of stuff
They are out of stuff every day- check back often, it changes fairly quickly.

They are moving a lot of product.
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Old September 19, 2012, 12:43 AM   #75
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Thanks for all the help people. Made deciding on what rifle to get so much easier. Now just need to decide between an eotech holo sight or a trijicon acog... hmm. Does anyone know anything about the acogs? I have experience with the eotechs but not the acog. Is it like the acog where you can look from different angles and the reticle moves? Or is it more like a scope where you have to stay in the right position or you get the tunnel?
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