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Old September 4, 2012, 09:42 PM   #1
doctor_brevic
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Keltec Sub2000 home invasion

I recently picked up a Keltec sub 2000 in 9mm that takes the glock 17 mags. Figured I'd ask if anyone has experienced any problems with theirs? Are they pretty reliable as I suspect? I've got a flashlight mounted on it and I plan to use it as a general pourpose firearm. Seeing as it is the only long arm I can use in a low to no light situation because I havent got around to mounting lights on anything else (this was very convenient) I may designate it a burglary response weapon as well. The only other option in the dark would be my glock 23 (.40) while holding a flashlight. I don't know... the sub 2000 having a stock and longer barrel would certainly be more accurate, but what about muzzle energy? 9mm out of a rifle barrel vs .40 out of a 4 incher. Let me know what you all think!
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Old September 4, 2012, 09:54 PM   #2
armoredman
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How tight are your doorways and hallways? Get that unloaded and open rifle into every tight spot you have, and see how easy it is to maneuver while confined in a "box". I am of the opinion that a pistol caliber carbine gives nothing to, and takes away from a person defending a home, except the fear factor of the bad guy seeing the good guy with a rifle. My opinion is sometimes in the minority. if I grab a long gun, it will be in a long gun caliber, BUT, that's just me.
If you like it and it works well for you, then by all means, have fun. Always remember a weapon mounted light means your firearm is pointed at whatever you see, be it target or scared family member.
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Old September 4, 2012, 10:45 PM   #3
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And here I was thinking this was a thread about someone defending themselves from a Home Invasion with a Keltec Sub2k. Got all excited for nothing. It is in the T&T forum after all
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Old September 4, 2012, 11:51 PM   #4
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I'd take Armoredman's advice and see how well you can maneuver around your house with the carbine. The only thing I'd add is be sure to get a sling in case you need both hands free.

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Old September 5, 2012, 12:00 AM   #5
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I had one years ago which was very picky on ammo. I don't remember what brand(s) it liked (shot some Federal/American Eagle, Winchester, don't remember what else). That being said the ammo it was eating it did so without a hitch. Never tried any hollow points in it...
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Old September 5, 2012, 05:05 PM   #6
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A rifle shooting handgun ammo I think is the best home defense weapon in my opinion. Has the benifits of being a ling gun, but no over penetration that rifle cartridges have. Imagin shooting at an attacker with a .308, 30-06, .300 mag, or any other typical rifle catridge. It's not gonna work well.
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Old September 5, 2012, 06:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
A rifle shooting handgun ammo I think is the best home defense weapon in my opinion. Has the benifits of being a ling gun, but no over penetration that rifle cartridges have. Imagin shooting at an attacker with a .308, 30-06, .300 mag, or any other typical rifle catridge. It's not gonna work well.
Any handgun cartridge fired out of a carbine with a 16" or so barrel will have considerably MORE velocity and muzzle energy than the same cartridge fired out of a handgun with say a 5" or less barrel. That said there IS a definite danger of over penetration since a 9mm shot from a handgun already penetrates deep enough that there will already be over penetration in a human sized target at home defense distances.

The only benefit really would be the ability to use the same mags as your handgun uses. Personally I'll stick with my AR-15 loaded with 31 rounds of SP .223 than a gimmicky rifle loaded with 16 or so rounds of JHP 9mm.
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Old September 5, 2012, 06:47 PM   #8
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More accurate? In the house, lol?

I think it would be ok but you should walk around your house with they eye that you were going to attack the house to spot the weak point that would probably be used for entry. Then you can back off and see if your carbine is indeed compact enough (or not) to easily defend these points. The extra penetration could indeed be your friend if you needed to shoot thru the wall to get them. The Wife's holed up with the pistol.
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Old September 5, 2012, 09:57 PM   #9
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ewoooo I bet you get it for that shoot through the wall comment
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Old September 5, 2012, 10:02 PM   #10
doctor_brevic
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Well, I did some homework and I feel pretty confident that it's manueverable in the home. Probably could'nt hurt to mention that I live alone in a very rural area with no neighbors so over penetration is no real issue for my situation. I have among countless other firearms a different "go to" gun aside from the sub 2k. mossberg 500 persuader 20" 7+1 with either slugs or 00 in it at all times, the only problem with it is that in the dark it can be very cumbersome to operate while holding a flashlight is a way such that it fulfills its duty as a target identifier without compromising my proficiency with the weapon. Of course there is the afro mentioned glock 23 option involving one handed pistol operation and the support hand goes into illumination duty. In the event that I should venture outside to pursue and subdue/incapacitate if necessary the assumed assailant I feel that a rifle platform is much more stable for a guarenteed hit at including but not limited to 25 yards. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty handy with the little glock but I must admit as I think just about everyone else must as well, I am still better with a rifle. Seeing as the sub 2k was very convenient to mount a light to that is the one that got one so there is where I am... So, .40 with 4 inch barrel or 9mm out of a carbine? Of couse during the day it'll be the mossberg but at night those are my options
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Old September 5, 2012, 10:53 PM   #11
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Sorry, I guess I should qualify that statement. My kids are grown and moved out. The way the house is laid out I would likely be shooting one direction no matter if they entered front or back, and the house is made of brick with 2x6 walls. If a stranger is in the house, it's a life and death situation, so a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.
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Old September 7, 2012, 10:51 AM   #12
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I went through a similar dilemma a few years ago. I ended up with a CZ SP-01 with TLR-1 light mounted on the rail. The whole thing is able to be operated with one hand. Single hand operation was important because my son is young and if I need to retrieve him from his room I will need to carry him.
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Old September 7, 2012, 02:05 PM   #13
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here's where I use my Hi-Point 9mm carbine (completely reliable after about 400 rds of FMJ and JHP, by the way) ... Just started keeping it by the bed, along with my usual Springer 1911 in my nightstand ... if for some reason I had to venture into my house to face a potential enemy, the Springer goes with me ... night sights and ease of carry, ability to operate with one hand, etc. If we're hunkered down in the bedroom, the carbine is my weapon of choice, for accuracy, volume of fire (10 rds of 9mm hollow point versus 8 in the 1911) ... no fear of having my long gun taken away by a BG hiding around a corner in the bedroom, and a long "fatal funnel" hallway leading to the bedroom proper which I can shoot down from behind a corner of the bed ...
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Old September 7, 2012, 04:31 PM   #14
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There's nothing really wrong per se with something like a Sub2000 as an HD weapon. It strikes me as though you are engaging in an activity called "optimizing the wrong end of the problem" though.

Things like accuracy, muzzle energy ... you don't get anything much more useful in those areas over a handgun for the intended use case. You're losing maneuverability and stealth, but not getting the devastating ballistics of a real rifle or a shotgun.
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Old September 7, 2012, 08:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
The only benefit really would be the ability to use the same mags as your handgun uses. Personally I'll stick with my AR-15 loaded with 31 rounds of SP .223 than a gimmicky rifle loaded with 16 or so rounds of JHP 9mm.
I'm pretty sure that the sub2000 can take the 33 round G18 mags as well, so you can potentially get pretty good ammo capacity out of it. I wouldn't think that 9mm is going to penetrate any worse than .223. You can always choose a lower pressure cartridge if it's an issue. The advantage over a handgun would be that you should be able to shoot faster and more accurately with 3 anchor points than you can with one. Sort of a poor mans mp5.
But either way, the OP has the carbine and may or may not have an AR.
And, I think - assuming maneuverability of a long gun in general isn't an issue - the keltec should work quite well for home defense.
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Old September 7, 2012, 08:49 PM   #16
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Better than a baseball bat, golf club, a rock or a sharp stick.

Practice, practice, practice. Get to know it and train with it in the dark because you may not see the controls when the lights are off.
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Old September 8, 2012, 12:55 PM   #17
Sher Khan
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I have the Glock 17 variant of the KelTec Sub2000, but consider it a car/truck gun rather than for home defense. I keep several 30 round Glock magazines together with the carbine in its carrying case. It's a bit long for easy movement inside the house and I find it difficult to acquire a rapid sight picture with the Sub2K sights. Handguns work better for for me indoors.
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Old September 8, 2012, 04:44 PM   #18
Dwight55
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Personally, I think armoredman gave you some spot on advice, . . . which goes back to training.

If you want to use it in your defense, . . . train to use it, . . . try it and see how you maneuver with it through doors, around obstacles, . . .

Then try to do it in pitch blackness. You know your house, . . . furniture, . . . pitfalls, . . . etc. and the boogey man will be at the disadvantage.

As far as not using a full rifle caliber round in a house, . . . all I can ask is "Why the devil not????"

If I decide to pick up my personal battle rifle in .308, . . . the bad guy better just hope he can outrun 2600 ft per second lead. I can patch walls, replace windows, . . . maybe even replace a TV or a fridge if needed, . . . but I doubt if Walmart has any spare parts for the boogey man. And there is only one place in the whole house that my rifle won't penetrate, . . . and I know how to defeat that too.

Main battle rifles didn't earn their name because they were tacticool, . . .

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Old September 8, 2012, 04:49 PM   #19
Loronzo
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I would recomend putting tape over the safety. Those sub2k's have a nasty habit of looking disengaged but will have about 1.5 mm or so before they are truely are (reminds me of an old Qucksilver bb gun i had as a kid), and if you try to fire it won't work, or pratice making sure every time you handle it you firmly press it all the way to the right. I own one chambered in. 40 and it has eaten every type of ammo I've fed it without a single ftf (JHP, Ball, Hornady Critical defense, etc.) It shoots extremely dirty but is easy to clean, just make sure you don't pull the trigger with the buffer spring out (haven't done it myself but have heard several horror stories) also the only reason I didn't just glue the safety in the off position outright. Honestly I love my Kelly alot.

If you get the funds I would recomend trying one of the extended mags, just make sure to buy one from glock, not a knockoff (they are prone to jamming) but for the sake of adding a couple of inches to your rifle you effective double your ammo capacity before reloading. Plus they are just outright cool

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Old September 8, 2012, 08:10 PM   #20
doctor_brevic
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Yeah, I think you guys are pointing me in the right direction. I'll probably grab the glock 23 for the one handed operation for inside. However for outside, where distances increase, I may still lean toward the keltec just because it is a pain to hold the glock in one hand and the light in the other. In a pinch I could certainly use the keltec one handed, if you really think about it the handgun flashlight combo(which is necessary for me in the dark) IS a two handed operating procedure... Well, at that thought I just might have to get myself a S&W M&P15 and mount a surefire and a green laser I had a light mounted on my mossberg for a while but I was thinking about the 3 in magnum recoil and I tightened it HULK SMASH tight on the magazine tube. Don't know how it was possible but I had a hold up in the mag tube! Tap it and it released but if you loaded up all 7 in the tube and racked it twice the 2nd time it would react as if it were unloaded! Anyone have this happen??? I was pretty distressed
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:38 PM   #21
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Mine has been close to 100% reliable except for some American Eagle duds I had once.

I have 20 round promags (6 or 8) that have been great with mine. I have a quad rail with light and Vertical grip that makes it a fine little home SD firearm. I would have no problem using mine for HD.

It's also been solid with winchester PDX +p 9mm (the only HP's I've tried)

I wouldn't know about inside but outside you can shoot this thing without ear plugs. I know because my son used it to take his first deer when he was 5.


That being said, it's in the safe and my 500 is beside the bed.
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Old September 14, 2012, 02:57 PM   #22
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>>There's nothing really wrong per se with something like a Sub2000 as an HD weapon<<

On the other hand, I'm picking one up in .40 just to play with.
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Old September 14, 2012, 05:00 PM   #23
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I won't comment on the advisability on using a pistol caliber carbine generally for HD. Seems to me that if you are comfortable with it why not.

As for the sub 2k specifically, I've owned one for a while and find it to be a total piece of garbage. Cheaply made and completely unreliable with repeated stove pipes and failures to extract, even after 2 trips back to the factory. You'll hear people say that it is finicky with ammo and that may be true, or it may be the way the mag seats in the newer model, or it may be sensitive to "limp shouldering" -- not having the stock not firmly planted in the shoulder resulting in failure of the gun to cycle properly. Whatever the issue is, which neither I nor customer service at Kel Tec were able to figure out, I would never stake my life on it if I had any other alternative. Period.

It really is a shame, because it is a great concept. Just very poorly executed.
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