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Old September 21, 2012, 02:29 AM   #1
mohr308
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Quick question

Im working up load in .308 win, for a friend of mine. Im using the Nosler ballistic (green) tip in 165 grain, on top of BL-C(2) with Fed 210M primers. Now my question, is stepping up .4 grains at a time to conservative or to much for such a range? Nosler manual lists 42.5-46.5, with 46.5 most accurate.
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Old September 21, 2012, 09:42 AM   #2
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Not too conservative. Indeed, Dan Newberry's OCW method says 0.7% to not over 1% per step, otherwise you can fail to identify a band of accuracy loads by skipping over the ends of one.

Your choice of primer is possibly not the best for the situation. Load some with 215M's or else try TulAmmo or Wolf large rifle magnum primers for comparison (I find these Russian primers to be extraordinarily consistent, but be sure you seat them firmly to get below flush with the head by about 0.005"; that's a number that applies to the Federals, as well, but which they take less effort to seat to). The older formulation spherical propellants in the WC7xxx and WC8xxx series (BL-C(2) is cannister grade WC846) have deterrent coatings that can be difficult to ignite. CCI reformulated their magnum primers in 1989 specifically to address these propellants. A Western Powder's lab tech recently told me more modern deterrent coatings, such as are on their Ramshot line, don't have this ignition issue, but those old military types do. Recently, a fellow on the CMP forums said he took my advice on this and cut group sizes at 500 yards in half by going to CCI 250 primers from CCI 200 primers.

One year I shot some Accurate 2520 in .308 and found the groups would not match what I could do with stick powders. I had an M1A that would shoot 0.7 moa with IMR 4895 and Brigadier 3032 and Reloader 12 (the latter two powders are no longer available), but was 1.3 moa with 2520. I was using 210M primers and Remington cases at the time. It didn't occur to try magnum primers, but I did try deburring the vents ("flash holes") and found the group sizes then dropped to match what stick powders did in that gun. The deburring didn't have any apparent affect on the stick powders, apparently just because they light up so much more easily anyway.
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Old September 21, 2012, 09:57 AM   #3
4runnerman
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Unclenick- You are the man at this stuff for sure. I do have a question though.
You say not the best choice of primers??. I am puzzled,

GM210M is the number 1 choice in 308 primers from all the loads i see. I would venture to say 80% plus of all listed 308 loads use those primers.

Please give me your thoughts- As i take them with much respect

It is my Match load for FTR class

GM210M primers
43.2 gn's RL-15
175 SMK

Constantly pulls tight froups at 600 yards
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Old September 21, 2012, 05:11 PM   #4
TATER
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4runnerman,
BL-C(2) is a ball powder. As such, It is good practice to use a hotter spark.
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Old September 21, 2012, 05:40 PM   #5
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Thanks Tater
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Old September 22, 2012, 03:31 AM   #6
mohr308
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UncleNick

I know I have some CCI200's here. I wonder if we don't get good results from the load test if I should give them a whack? I have loaded for this rifle before and didn't get good results with varget matched up with CCI200's. I did have acceptable results with imr4064 but nothing great. Im using the same bullets from the last 2 tests for this one also. I did reference from my manual this time for the powder and primer combo.
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Old September 22, 2012, 02:55 PM   #7
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It never hurts to try, as it's yet another good excuse to learn something. The 200's are mild, and not like the 250's you actually want with BL-C(2) though stick powders often do well with 200's. Be aware that if you get a different velocity with them, you are also getting a different barrel time, so that if you were on a load sweet spot, that may be shifted and you may have to adjust powder charge again. The Federal 215M is another primer you could try with BL-C(2).

Also, if your rifle needs anything fundamental done to improve accuracy, the most perfect ammo in the world still won't shoot bugholes with it. So if it needs bedding, bolt lug lapping, rechambering, or recrowning, making those improvements first can significantly change what shoots best in it and how good that best shooting is.

I saw an article some time ago by a fellow who'd made a joint purchase of a set of Dave Manson's crowning tools with another fellow. For a small fee they recrowned many of the rifles belonging to members of their shooting club, and IIRC, got at least some accuracy improvement in more than half of the guns they recrowned. So inadequate crown precision is an example of something the factories commonly fail to provide.
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Old September 22, 2012, 09:31 PM   #8
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Unclenick

i will pick up a box of the 215m's and load up some rounds and see what happens!
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