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Old September 3, 2012, 04:16 PM   #1
M14
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223 Blue Dot Problem

I bought a Dunham special M700 Remington package complete with "Remington" 4-12X scope in .223 Remington. My idea was to load to .22 Hornet velocity with Blue Dot which would give me a 150 yd. range & a muzzle blast that wouldn't disturb the neighbors. I loaded 40 grain Hornady V-maxes over 11 grains of Blue Dot. I achieved my muzzle blast goal, but group size is in the 5 1/2" range. Any ideas?
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Old September 3, 2012, 04:44 PM   #2
FrankenMauser
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The bullets may not be stabilizing.
You may be getting erratic ignition.
You may be getting pressure variations (Blue Dot likes {almost needs} to be compressed).

Or... it may just be that your rifle doesn't like where you have the V-Max seated.

Do you know what your actual muzzle velocity is?
Is there an air space in the case?
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Old September 3, 2012, 05:33 PM   #3
steveno
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try 2400 powder
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Old September 3, 2012, 06:29 PM   #4
SonOfGun
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Where did you get your data for using Blue Dot? I can not find any data. The Blue Dot label states Magnum Shotshell and Handgun.
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Old September 3, 2012, 07:21 PM   #5
bigD01
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reduced loads in .223

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/bee.php
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Old September 3, 2012, 07:21 PM   #6
M14
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This is one place for Blue Dot data:
http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/Blue%20Dot.htm
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Old September 4, 2012, 12:31 AM   #7
FrankenMauser
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I understand the theory behind powder selection for the reduced loads on that site, but Blue Dot wouldn't even make my list. It's ridiculously unpredictable when you leave an air space. I would have gone for Red Dot, or some other "magnum pistol" powder.


As for the accuracy issue...
What does the group look like?
Vertical stringing?
Shotgun pattern?
Key-holing?
Small clusters within the larger group?
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Old September 4, 2012, 12:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Blue Dot wouldn't even make my list. It's ridiculously unpredictable when you leave an air space.
I disagree.
I use Blue Dot for 308 Win. with a 125gr Nosler BT and 16gr of BD it will shoot under a inch at a 100yrds. The beauty of this load is it's cool and consistent.
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Old September 4, 2012, 04:23 AM   #9
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The group looks like a shotgun pattern.
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Old September 4, 2012, 11:21 AM   #10
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I have shot thousands or rounds of 33 gr Vmax moly 15 gr Blue Dot .223 2.17" OAL.
Thousands of rodents have died.

I bought a new [used] Ruger #1V rifle, took it to the range and shot 30 of these rounds at the above target at 100 yards.

One nice thing about the 15 gr of Blue Dot is that the barrel is slow to heat up, and I can shoot 30 rounds quickly and stay accurate.
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Old September 5, 2012, 06:49 PM   #11
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I tried a different reduced load. I shot a 1 1/4" group at 115 yds. using 15 grains of IMR 4227 & those 40 grain Hornady V-maxes. This was prone shooting over a carpet roll. Muzzle blast was quite acceptable. I think I'll stick with this & maybe visit Blue Dot later. Thanks fo all the help.

Cork
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Old September 5, 2012, 10:41 PM   #12
beex215
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ive used a grams worth of blue dot in 223 and out of 18 or so rounds, the primers popped out. i cant really say about accuracy as its really shot distance.
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Old September 6, 2012, 07:32 PM   #13
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I talked to Alliant about Blue Dot in the .223. They don't recommend it because small changes in components create big changes in pressures. It is simply too sensitive. This powder is inappropriate to use in this application and that is why they don't publish Blue Dot data for the .223.
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:01 PM   #14
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Blue Dot in 223 should only be done by those who know what they are doing.

The big problems are:
1) More powder will fit in the case than is safe.
2) The flaky powder can hang up in an RCBS uniflow and make one light charge and then one heavy charge.
3) It is difficult to see if there is the right amount of powder in a .223 case.
4) Many Blue Dot loads will not cycle an AR15

The rewards are:
1) Barrel stays cool at 100 shots per hour
2) Barrel stay clean, Blue dot burns amazingly clean at 35kpsi in a .223. Shoot 200 times. Run a patch through the bore. It looks like it was only fire once.
3) Reduces power from 223 to 218 Bee lever for a level appropriate for shooting ground squirrels inside of 200 yards.
4) For many will be the most accurate they have ever shot their 223.
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:02 PM   #15
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Try a ≤90% (by volume) load of Trailboss.
That should run under 25,000psi, produce 1,600fps, and be completely consumed in the first 2" of barrel.
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