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Old September 2, 2012, 09:33 PM   #1
Stuohn
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What do you think?

I'm going to be getting a few different guns in the next couple of weeks. I currently own nothing. Budget is $2000 for everything (optics, mags, etc) and another $500 for ammo.

Ive already decided Im getting a XDM 45 compact for HD/Carry. So that leaves me with @ $1300 for a long gun for bad times/learning/hunting.

Ive owned a couple of 18" shotguns, and a M&P 15 before and lve shot a
M1A Socom and 1 round out of a Barret .50.

At first, I was thinking another AR but, kinda want some thing I could hunt with if needed. (Colt LE6290 @ Walmart for @ $1200 OTD + $100 for mags)

Then, I was thinking a Savage 10 Trophy Hunter w/nikon scope package (wood stock) and a Remington 870 express tactical. (Get both for $1000 including tranfer fees) maybe add a 10/22 to round it out?

Then, I discovered the Ruger Gunsite existed and could possibly do what both of the guns listed above can do. After adding it up this one rifle will cost me @ the same. Ruger $760 + transfer $25 + optic@ $200-$250 + $90 for scope mount (so I can mount it tradtional but, keep the Iron sights) + $100 for mags = @ $1200.

Anything else I might want to look into? Pros? Cons?
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Old September 2, 2012, 10:19 PM   #2
Basement-Gunsmith-Z
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What distance do you plan on shooting at? That will determine your rifle and optics setup. As well as what game are you planning to hunt? And, how much do you plan to shoot?

Now, the world of optics is a whole nother ballgame. The most important thing when choosing an optic is to determine what distance you will be shooting at.

When you are looking at what distance you plan to shoot at decide on 2 distances. One for hunting the game you want to hunt, and 2, the distance you want to target shoot at.

Please answer these questions, and I will get back to you.

Last edited by Basement-Gunsmith-Z; September 3, 2012 at 05:58 PM.
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Old September 2, 2012, 11:23 PM   #3
Stuohn
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Well the only range near me that even allows rifles at all only has up to
100yd rifle range. So I figure between 50-100yds. As to what Id be hunting? Deer/Hogs/Whatever else Id personally be willing to eat and get an
opportunity to hunt.
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Old September 3, 2012, 09:59 AM   #4
Basement-Gunsmith-Z
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For that i'd recommend a S&W M&P 15 sport chambered in .223. .223 is powerful enough to hunt with within 100 yards. I don't personally hunt much, but i have seen plenty of people hunt deer and hogs with .223. You just need good quality ammo such as a load with a nosler 60 grain bullet. And .223 is a lot cheaper to shoot than .308 and other larger calibers. And if you are still learning practice is very very important.

For the scope I think a basic weaver scope like this should work fine. Out to 100 yards you don't really need paralax adjustment or other "fancy" things, And get a Rear BUIS such as magpul or troy.

And that leaves you with some extra money to save for a different gun, buy more ammo, or a different scope.

Here's a pretty good price on .223 ball ammo http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/223-5...il-p/223ab.htm

and here's a good price on .308 ball to compare
http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/308-W...-p/ae308db.htm

.308 is 2 times as expensive as .223. Just food for thought.

Last edited by Basement-Gunsmith-Z; September 3, 2012 at 12:58 PM.
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Old September 3, 2012, 10:57 AM   #5
big al hunter
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The savage 10 in 243 win. would be my pick for deer hunting and target practice. I.would also recommend a savage markII 22 lr. Good, cheap, accurate, practice that can be used on small game. All the lessons learned on a 22 transfer directly to large caliber arms. I have been shooting and hunting for 25 years. I am still practicing with my 22s and learning from them. I would also get a shotgun, but not a tactical model. A hunting model will function as a defence gun a tactical model is harder to hunt with IMO. Good luck and have fun.
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Old September 3, 2012, 11:54 AM   #6
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Deer hunting with a 223, in my opinion, is only for the very experienced hunters. It's a marginal cartridge for that purpose. Take Big Al Hunter's advice and go with at least a 243.
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Old September 3, 2012, 02:06 PM   #7
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get an AK... unbeatable reliability, and 7.62x39 is great for deer hunting as well.. cant beat it
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Old September 3, 2012, 02:51 PM   #8
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.243 is a more powerful cartridge than .223, but is a lot more expensive to shoot. .243 ammo is around $1 per round and .223 is around 25-30 cents per round. When hunting with .223 shot placement is key. You can get 1000 rounds of .223 for $330. after 1000 rounds of practice you should be able to hit what you aim at Loads like federal premium 60 grain nosler loads are marketed for medium game such as deer. They are very effective.

Most people also do more shooting at the range than hunting, so fun factor is also a priority. AR-15s are FUN guns to shoot. A bolt action .243 can also be fun to shoot, but it's expensive to shoot. And if you decide you want to take a tactical carbine class or just go mess around at the range you can. If you want to use a different caliber it's just two pins away.

I suggested .223 not because it's the best at everything; but because it's good at everything. The one thing that really tips the scale is affordability.

On a side note; I've seen some people that are great shots with a .22, but can't hit a target with a .223 or anything that has a real bang to it; they flinch because they aren't used to anything with a real bang to it.
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Old September 3, 2012, 03:24 PM   #9
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edited to correct generalized statement:

AR serves your purposes (edit) as long as it meets minimum caliber or energy requiremnts for hunting

if you're looking to get a big bang for the buck,

Spikes 16" mid-length - $875
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...ine-p-443.html

and...

Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x with PEPR mount for hunting- $319
http://www.sportoptics.com/leupold-m...pe-67170C.aspx

or

Vortex SPARC Primary Arms red dot for less than $200 or an Aimpoint for less than $500

There you go. A high quality rifle for plinking, hunting, or self-defense. And, it didn't break your $1300 budget.

Last edited by pturner67; September 3, 2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old September 3, 2012, 03:26 PM   #10
big al hunter
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The 243 is the min. caliber for big game in many states. If you might hunt in other states check the regulations before deciding. I doubt that this will be the last firearms purchase the OP will make. Just getting the priorities in order. Nothing says you can only have the guns you buy today. It is a personal decision, but we can make that decision again when the budget allows.
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Old September 3, 2012, 03:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
you can do everything you want with an AR
Careful with blanket statements..... Many states have minimum caliber or energy requiremnts for hunting weapons ......
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Old September 3, 2012, 03:55 PM   #12
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cool thing about guns is if you buy them used you can usually get about what you paid for them...
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Old September 3, 2012, 04:01 PM   #13
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good point jimbob, thanks
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Old September 3, 2012, 04:05 PM   #14
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you can technically kill an elephant with a .22lr if youre REALLY lucky and have an absolutely perfect shot.. but reliably? no.. and will a .223/5.56 reliably take deer, boar, elk at range?.. no.. if you want to hunt big game with a rifle, youd have to step it up,

as i recommended, a 7.62mm AK, you can take any big game you want, no one ever debates its effectiveness for hunting or defense, and surplus sources for AK parts seem to be drying up.. so best to buy one now before they become more expensive
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Old September 3, 2012, 04:10 PM   #15
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Get the Savage rifle in .308, and put the rest on good glass.
Basement GunsmithZ, I don't spend 1.00 on .243 win, I handload them. (I don't have numbers in front of my brain)
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Old September 3, 2012, 07:18 PM   #16
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I have hunted with and killed deer with my mini-14 using 65gr gameking bullets in my reloads. I have a H&R Handi-rifle in .243 topped with a burris scope. That combo cost me less than $500 and its a tackdriver. You can get alot of firepower with that amount of cash if you shop around. Ruger American rifles are getting great reviews and they are very inexpensive bolt action rifles. I shot a friends american in .308 and not only is it moa accurate but the trigger is damn good for a $300 rifle.
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Old September 3, 2012, 08:21 PM   #17
Stuohn
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In my quick search on the subject it would seem that it is legal to hunt in Texas with any centerfire caliber (no rimfire).

As to the ak, I have two sons who would probably agree with you (Damn black ops) but, not really interested. I was thinking of a Mini 30 tactical but, Im not even sure they make them anymore (cant find one anywhere).

So no one for the Ruger Gunsite? Im thinking for the money a DPMS ar10 (I know thats not the real name but, it should be) or maybe a FNAR would be money better spent?

I like the 308 round (from what Ive read) and can buy the reloads from freedom muntions pretty cheap.

Oh well, Im going to the Pasadena Gun show this weekend. So I have no doubt Ill forget most of the advice and make an impulse buy.
Seriously though I appreciate all the advice.
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Last edited by Stuohn; September 4, 2012 at 01:05 AM.
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Old September 4, 2012, 09:08 AM   #18
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Really?

Quote:
you can technically kill an elephant with a .22lr if youre REALLY lucky and have an absolutely perfect shot.. but reliably? no.. and will a .223/5.56 reliably take deer, boar, elk at range?.. no.. if you want to hunt big game with a rifle, youd have to step it up,

as i recommended, a 7.62mm AK, you can take any big game you want, no one ever debates its effectiveness for hunting or defense, and surplus sources for AK parts seem to be drying up.. so best to buy one now before they become more expensive
An AK is just as unsuitable for "deer, boar, elk at range?.. " as an M-4gery .... maybe moreso, given it's poorer sights, equally short barrel and shorter sight radius and dismal accuracy ...... to say nothing of the low power and poor ballistic efficiency of the round itself.... "At range"? What range? By the time that bullet has gone 100 yards, it's around the 1,000 ft/ lb mark (provided you get published 7.62x39 velocity out of the carbine length barrel- not likely) , and dropping fast......

Elk? "at range"? With an AK-47?



Just how much hunting have you done, really?
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Old September 4, 2012, 09:09 AM   #19
jimbob86
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Quote:
So no one for the Ruger Gunsite?
I like that gun ..... I'd like it more in a more efficient caliber.
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Old September 4, 2012, 10:08 AM   #20
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.243 is a more powerful cartridge than .223, but is a lot more expensive to shoot. .243 ammo is around $1 per round and .223 is around 25-30 cents per round.
You can get PPU .243 for $16/20, Sellier&Belliot for $18/20 right now at Cabela's..... I'm sure there are better deals online if you buy in bulk ..... reloading .243 can be done for .....

Bullets- Remington 100gr PP ......... $20.99/100 21 cents per

Brass- Winchester....................... $22.99/50 67/ ea. .... 7 cents, assuming 10 firings

Primers-Winchester Large Rifle ...... $34.95/1000 ...... call it 4 cents per

Powder - IMR 4831, $25.99/lb..... 42.0 gr/round, 7000 gr/lb ..... 7cents per
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21+7+4+7= 39 cents/round ...... all at Cabela's prices, with only the primers bought in bulk......With some internet search-fu, and a bit of effort, you can find better deals.....

A Lee handloading kit and dies to make that possible can be had for between $80 and $150 ....
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Old September 4, 2012, 10:11 AM   #21
jason41987
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yes jimbob.. at range.. if anyone hunts, they know at range means anything beyond 50 yards, and an AK will be a decent hunting rifle out to about 300, no responsible hunter tries to take game beyond that range even with bolt actions... and the key word here is responsible
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Old September 4, 2012, 10:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
and an AK will be a decent hunting rifle out to about 300, no responsible hunter tries to take game beyond that range even with bolt actions...
There's a couple loads of BS there if I've ever heard it. The Ak's good to 300 yards but it's irresponsible to use a better, more accurate gun with a better cartridge beyond that? Someone needs to take a Rifles 101 class (and stop posting useless false info until they do).

The Scout rifle? A **** poor compromise. Wouldn't own one and if one was given to me it would get sold of in about 2 heartbeats.
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Old September 4, 2012, 10:39 AM   #23
jimbob86
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an AK will be a decent hunting rifle out to about 300,
Not.

1-Even assuming your 123 gr SP* bullet could be driven to 2300 f/sec out of that short barrel, it'd drop more than 10 inches between 250 and 300 yards: you'd better be pretty exact with your range estimation, or you'll miss completely, or worse, wound the animal.

2- By 300 yards (again assuming you start with a muzzle velocity of 2300) you round is nearing 500 ft/lbs of energy - not a lot, and possibly not enough to make that bullet expand....

3- Placement, as they say, is everything: What kind of group can you get with an AK? I've heard 3-4 MOA is the norm. 4 MOA is roughly a 12 inch circle at 300 yards. If you put the gun in a mechanical rest, and there was no wind or shooter error, you still would have a rather weak hit outside the heart/lung area of a whitetail 25% of the time with a 4MOA gun! And with the short sight radius and crude sights of the AK, there's plenty of room for shooter error. Don't talk to me about responsible hunting.....
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Old September 4, 2012, 10:53 AM   #24
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if anyone hunts, they know at range means anything beyond 50 yards,


I'll take a WAG and say my 16 y.o. daughter has killed more deer "at range" than jason..... though she probably would be bit confused about that term....

I know hunting is not a contest, but I just can't stand it when someone makes ridiculous claims to new hunters...... and suggesting that an AK-47 is a good hunting rifle for deer and elk to 300 yards is about as ridiculous a statement I have ever seen on the web.

..... and in the same breath calling folks who take deer at distances exceeding 300 yards "irresponsible".
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Old September 4, 2012, 12:03 PM   #25
jimbob86
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no one ever debates its effectiveness for hunting
I think that is up for debate- I'm your huckleberry!

Quote:
The Scout rifle? A **** poor compromise.
I'll take that debate, too.

It is a compromise, yes, and by design: Anything "cabable of doing a great many things well" must be a compromise. But it is just about perfect for 90% of whitetail hunting. Fast handling, good for everything in the lower 48 .... What is not to like, besides that short barrel (non-issue for it's intended use)?
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Last edited by jimbob86; September 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM.
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