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Old August 30, 2012, 12:29 PM   #26
TacticalDefense1911
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You know, its funny, I posted some mis-information earlier that I did not know and is the opposite of what I have ever heard. According to Hilton Yam from 10-8 Performance, Springfield has 2 different levels of quality when it comes to their MIM parts. Guns like the Range Officer, MC Operator and TRP receive a higher quality MIM part then the Loaded and guns below that.

I just came across this information today so I must appologize for saying earlier that all Springfields have the same internals. Goes to show that internet advice is worth what you pay for it
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Old August 31, 2012, 03:39 AM   #27
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Thanks for the input folks .. looks like Colt is leading the pack so far
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Old August 31, 2012, 11:37 AM   #28
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TO Tactical's comments...

It's not my thread, but I appreciate the explanation on Springfield's offerings.
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Old September 1, 2012, 12:34 PM   #29
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Quote:
a higher quality MIM part
I am curious as to what makes one MIM part of a better quality than another when pistols are made by the same company. Specifically, can you (or someone else) explain how MIM parts from Springfield are differentiated in terms of quality? Thanks.
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Old September 1, 2012, 12:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
I am curious as to what makes one MIM part of a better quality than another when pistols are made by the same company. Specifically, can you (or someone else) explain how MIM parts from Springfield are differentiated in terms of quality? Thanks.
A cheaper metal, less % of metal more filler?
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Old September 2, 2012, 06:42 PM   #31
TacticalDefense1911
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Like anything that is manufactured there are good parts and not so good parts so levels of quality can vary. I would assume that Springfield must outsource their MIM parts from other manufacturers and that they very in quality and price. Perhaps the heat treating is different. Perhaps they go through different levels of QC. I don't know for sure but that is the scuttlebutt.
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Old September 3, 2012, 12:55 PM   #32
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I guess my question really is, how much more does it cost to make a "quality" MIM part as opposed to one that is of lesser quality? Pennies? If the cost between quality and lesser quality is negligible (as I suspect-that is, if there really are significant differences in quality between MIM parts-which I doubt), why would any company sacrifice the potential reliability and durability of their product if the difference in the cost to manufacture said parts, in fact, are so minimal?

All of which is to say, I don't think there's any merit to this claim:
Quote:
Apparently, Springfield has two different levels of quality when it comes to their MIM parts.
If the claim is true, I have to wonder why Springfield would jeopardize their fine reputation for making excellent pistols by making them with different standards of quality in terms of the MIM components (which are suspect by some in terms of quality to begin with).
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Old September 4, 2012, 02:10 PM   #33
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A simple expression of choice is nice but when trying to help someone with a decision, I would think the reason behind the choice would be a greater help.

I own 4 Kimbers, 2 Colts, and 2 Springfield 1911's. My oldest Kimber is about 18 years old or older and has never given me a problem, and for that matter, the other Kimbers have never been problematic. The two newer ones were acquired within the past two or three years. My Colts, which were purchased years ago, had problems which required trips back to the factory until I got disgusted enough to hand them over to a Master Gunsmith. Even with the "problems" corrected, the only way to make the Colts reliable was to use Wilson Combat mags. The two Springfields are also reliable I took my stainless model and had it completely customized.

I am comfortable with the reliability with all of these guns now as I am with the excellent accuracy. It's just that I had to throw more money at some to get them in line with the others.

With anything mass produced, there is going to be a certain percentage of less than perfect quality; it is elementary production management 101.
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Old September 4, 2012, 05:07 PM   #34
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While we all love stories like good MIM vs not-so-good MIM, I would guess SA makes MIM parts of basically a couple of types or less. MIM would be very expensive, unless production volumes are not SUPER high. So I would guess that the difference between TRP and Loaded is more like.. .

TRP has extra features like mag well, grips, checkering and sights.

The TRP also likely uses a barrel which is setup to require a very slight lower lug cut and very slight RR barrel extension fit to the breech face. Maybe add to that a handful of barrel bushing sizes to pick from. . .i.e. like the EGW custom fit. Maybe they also fit the firing pin stop slightly and maybe tension the extractor by hand.

The loaded is probably all a spec built gun. Meaning all part come to an assembler and fit. Any handwork is fed back to a operator and they adjust the machining so no handfitting is required. Basically, assemble, function check and ship(or send to repair for fitting or troubleshooting of inspection failure).
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Old September 5, 2012, 02:51 PM   #35
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This particular thread fascinated me as to why so many people preferred Colt over Kimber so I would like to share what I think is interesting.

When I returned home from Vietnam, the very first gun I purchased was a new Colt 1911 which they called the 1991 -A1. It wasn't fancy and had iron sights but I learned to shoot and enjoy it. Sometime after, I purchased another Colt, an Officer's Model 1911 in Stainless. I shot both guns to my heart's content and had no problem with the full size gun but the Officer's Model became problematic until I bought a couple of Wilson Combat magazines which seem to eliminate the problems. I shot not less than 200 rounds per week out of each gun.

I began to accumulate other guns of other manufacturers to include revolvers and some top of the line Polymer guns. Never had any malfunctions with any of my guns.

One day I hear that one of the hottest new guns to hit the market is Kimber so I march out to my LGS and purchase a Stainless Steel Pro Carry. Wow. I was impressed with it's accuracy and smoothness. It immediately became my primary carry gun and I shot several hundred rounds a week out of it. Somewhere close to 5000 rounds, I began to have some feeding problems and went back to the owner's manual where I learned Kimber recommended the recoil spring be changed every 800 rounds. I purchased some new Wolff springs and my reliable Kimber was back to it's old self. I also purchased new recoil springs for my other 1911's and magically they were transformed into like-new guns again.

Last night I took my Kimber Pro Carry to the range and after about three boxes of ammo, began to have feeding problems. I began to think about the last time I changed the recoil and firing pin spring and couldn't remember. I do know that I had put at least 5000 rounds through it since I last changed the springs. Today, after doing what I needed to do outside, I sat down with my Kimber and reached into my gun tool box and pulled out a new set of springs. I changed both the recoil and firing pin springs in less than five minutes. The lesson learned here is to keep a check of your springs and change them before the gun starts to become problematic. You will enjoy your gun a whole lot more and it could even save your life.

Additionally, it seems to me that the Colt does not consume springs quite as fast as the Colt and it could be for that very reason that some may think the Colt is better than the Kimber.
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Old September 5, 2012, 07:46 PM   #36
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I have never had an issue with my kimber. 2000rds with zero ftf, a couple of failure to lock open on final round within the first 200rds of use, breakin period. I looked at Colt, S&W, SA, Kimber even a DW. The only thing that matched the Kimber in fit and finish was the DW. For an extra $500 and the fact that I couldnt find a 9mm DW I bought the Kimber. After the break in period it is smooth as silk and does not have that nasty side to side play in the slide you will find in other manufacturers. Colt got its name for reliability in the jungle and rightly so. They made them loose to be reliable. I dont know about you. But, I aint in the jungle with my 1911.
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Old September 5, 2012, 09:12 PM   #37
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I'm going against the "conventional wisdom" here, but only because I am honestly evaluating the 1911s that I have actually owned...not what I have heard about, what I have read, etc...

Let me start by saying that the first handgun I ever fired was my daddy's WWII Colt 1911 (that would have been around 1964). The first handgun I bought was a Colt 1911 (that would have been 1982).

I have owned almost 30 1911s in the last 30 years. The cheapest was $125 (long ago), the most expensive was around $3000 (used, would have been close to $4k new).

I have owned:

Colt (3 or 4)
Charles Daly (1)
Dan Wesson (1)
Guncrafter Industries (1)
Kimber (8)
Les Baer (1)
Para (8)
Springfield (3)
S&W (2)

There is a good chance I am overlooking one or two, but we will go with what I have for the moment...

I am a serial owner...cannot affiord to own everything at once, but I can sell one and buy one with the best of them, and I do. I will not say that any brand is perfect, nor will I say that one brand is junk. However, I have had pretty good luck with some, and others...not so much.

Most are long gone, and very few are missed. Read between the lines, and take that as you will.

The ones I own today, I carry, trust my life to and have no intention of parting with.

--A steel-framed Commander-sized Kimber Eclipse Pro II.
--An alloy-framed Kimber Ultra Carry.
--A Scandium-framed Commander-sized S&W.
--An alloy-framed Commander-sized Les Baer.
--A steel-framed Commander sized Dan Wesson 10mm CBOB.

The last two required the attention of a good 1911-smith to get right, and to be honest, if they were lesser brands I might have given up on them. Now that I have them working correctly, they are keepers.

Note that the first three listed did not require this disclaimer. Not coincidentally, the other examples of these brands were 100% as well. And they were the only brands that I can truthfully make that statement about.

YMMV, and happy hunting.
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Old September 5, 2012, 09:24 PM   #38
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My Colts have been flawless, the Mark IV's underwhelming accuracy when new notwithstanding. My one Kimber has also been flawless and is my EDC. I would have looked to Colt for my EDC, had they had an equal to my Ultra CDP. At the time they did not.

So even though I trust my life to a Kimber everyday, if I was looking for a 1911 now, I'd look to Colt first.
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Old September 6, 2012, 12:51 PM   #39
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When I returned home from Vietnam, the very first gun I purchased was a new Colt 1911 which they called the 1991 -A1. It wasn't fancy and had iron sights but I learned to shoot and enjoy it.
I'm just curious, how long was you in vietnam?

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Old September 6, 2012, 02:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
When I returned home from Vietnam, the very first gun I purchased was a new Colt 1911 which they called the 1991 -A1. It wasn't fancy and had iron sights but I learned to shoot and enjoy it.
Quote:
I'm just curious, how long was you in vietnam?

Best Regards
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HAHAHA I was thinking the same thing.
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