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Old August 30, 2012, 04:12 PM   #51
dgludwig
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No need to appear smart when coming off as uninformed might well garner you a bargaining edge when consummating a "deal", if played right.

How would that work well? I would think that being well-informed would be more advantageous than ignorance, either real or feigned.

Obviously, being well-informed should always work to your advantage. Appearing not so well-informed when you really are (i.e., at a gun show, for instance), might work in your stead if you feign ignorance concerning the worth of a particular firearm. If the seller knows I know the worth of a given firearm, he's, perhaps, going to try to make me pay the full amount unapologetically. But if part of his bargaining strategy is reduced to persuading me that the gun is worth what he's asking, he may not be so strident or insistent in making me pay his "asking" price-that is, if I'm too stupid to know any better, then get what you can from this ignorant sucker because he doesn't know from Adam to begin with.
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Old August 30, 2012, 04:17 PM   #52
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And finally, allow the interloper who is looking at your next purchase to fully place the piece back on the counter before scooping it up and yelling sold!
This last bit takes considerable control, especially when it's a S&W model 58, or some other gem.
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Old August 30, 2012, 04:29 PM   #53
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And finally, allow the interloper who is looking at your next purchase to fully place the piece back on the counter before scooping it up and yelling sold!
This last bit takes considerable control, especially when it's a S&W model 58,
Yeah, a strip of duct tape over my mouth might help.
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Old August 30, 2012, 04:59 PM   #54
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Nearly all of the guns I've bought are military/LEO grade, also ugly and finished in scratch resistant black.

They're not pieces of jewelry, fancy watches, or snowflakes.

If a Sig, HK, Glock, Walther, etc. breaks because someone is dry firing it, racking the slide, or, God forbid, drops a magazine ON THE FLOOR... then it's defective and you've just done everyone a favor and identified a serious warranty problem before any poor soul bought it.

Any gun store that thinks an ugly Nitron finished military grade gun that can survive being dropped down a cliff, immersed in sea water, baked, frozen, thrown in the mud, then hosed off can in any way be damaged by typical handling to make sure everything is in order (trigger, slide, magazine release, etc) doesn't deserve your business.

...this doesn't apply to guns with fancy grips and finishes that aren't meant to be used as a hammer if need be.
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Old August 30, 2012, 05:11 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Skadoosh
When using their bullseye 1911's, I have been told by multiple NAVSEA armorers not to rack the slide on an empty chamber or to dry fire on an empty...because dropping the hammer on an empty chamber and releasing the slide on an empty chamber can cause hammer bounce back which will damage the delicate sear engagment surface sooner than later.
This is half correct.

Allowing the slide to slam into battery with no cartridge to strip from the magazine is VERY likely to cause damage to the tip of the sear in a 1911 with a light trigger pull.

Dry firing a 1911 (pulling the trigger to allow the hammer to fall) will NOT harm the pistol, and CANNOT harm the sear.

Beyond that ... terminology. "Racking the slide" to me means pulling the slide back to inspect the chamber and feed ramp. To me, the term "racking the slide" does not automatically imply allowing the slide to slam home on an empty chamber. Racking the slide and then riding it back into battery on an empty chamber does no harm.
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:05 PM   #56
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Those of you who find all these knowledgible gun store employees should post where you shop.

I find 2 types. Those who let me do my process on guns I will likely buy and those who make wild statements about what they think they know about guns.

I had a guy transfer a 19-3 in super condition to me that I bought online. After he !@#$%'ed around with it for a loss in value of about $20, I just started doing things for him like finding the serial number, showing him it remained unloaded and putting it in the case for him. Bluing is kind of fragile if you are really trying to keep it nice. Don't open boxes shipped to you until you ask the customer! Don't have a 15 yr old dim wit handle a gun transfer if he doesn't know guns, 4473's and the gun is worth more than he has made in his entire life! Don't drag it on the counter! Don't open the cylinder needlessly! Don't pull the hammer back half way and lower it! Last, if the customer has paid for the gun, let him do the work for you!

I'm sure somewhere in a land far, far away is an LGS who prices gun appropriately, handles gun knowledgeably, offers incredibly helpful advice, is not a racist and knows how to build a customer relationship.

I was close once, until they had a well worn S&W M29 for $1600, and wanted $42 for WLP primers.

Sorry, rant off.
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Old August 30, 2012, 08:12 PM   #57
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My father sells guns for living now and given some of the stories he has told me, here are some friendly tips:

1. Dont show up acting like you know more than anyone selling the guns. It's rude, condescending, and makes you an unlikeable person in general

2. Do a little homework before showing up. Trying to find out what a person might like who has never even read anything about guns ever is frustrating.

3. Be Nice. No one wants to help a mean person

4. If you have a question, ask.

5. Dont point guns at people, even unloaded ones. Dont think I need to explain that one.
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Old August 30, 2012, 09:16 PM   #58
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Obviously, being well-informed should always work to your advantage. Appearing not so well-informed when you really are (i.e., at a gun show, for instance), might work in your stead if you feign ignorance concerning the worth of a particular firearm. If the seller knows I know the worth of a given firearm, he's, perhaps, going to try to make me pay the full amount unapologetically. But if part of his bargaining strategy is reduced to persuading me that the gun is worth what he's asking, he may not be so strident or insistent in making me pay his "asking" price-that is, if I'm too stupid to know any better, then get what you can from this ignorant sucker because he doesn't know from Adam to begin with
Thanks D-glud for the explanation for the people who may not realize this. I don't mean that to anyone in a smart@ss way, but its not super obvious IE the anatomy of a deal: why some numbers come out, and why some people always get a good number, others always have to pay through the nose, some sell too low, some of the time, etc. A large part of it is how well you play the "game" and unless someone buys and sells a lot, you may never understand it fully.

A similar thing happened recently to me when I got my 3 screw 357 old model blackhawk, unconverted. The seller said "its one of those newer 3 screw new model guns, its not an old one". Well I knew 3 screw was about pre 1970 status, and I knew it was unconverted. He stated that he thought it has the new parts. His "ask" consequently, when I just nodded and said something cliche like "it would probably be a good shooter" (meanwhile it is a collectible gun) made him realize that I was unlikely to pay a lot for it, even though it jumped up at me and hit me in the face (those feelings were suppressed). Due to all of this, and partly what he paid, the "ask" was what I intended to counter offer. In other words, I felt he would ask at least $100 more than what he did, and I was more than willing to pay what he asked me. I do think he might have asked more if I told him what I thought or knew of this Ruger. It was obvious he didn't really know what it was or how it was special. It has the 4 5/8 "gunfighter" barrel length to boot (most are 6.5 in that I see).
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Old August 30, 2012, 10:15 PM   #59
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Gun shop etiquette is not standardized,,,
I just try and be polite and ask for permission.
Actually, that's a pretty good standard, if you ask me

Quote:
Dont show up acting like you know more than anyone selling the guns
Good point. Not because of ego, but because it really gets in the way of communication. When someone tells me they need and EDC SHTF rifle for CQB that's good for zombie apes at 1000 yards and they know from first-hand experience that it has to have 30-round clips and be chambered in something larger than .223 because .223 has no stopping power and the ammo needs to be cheap in case society melts down...

...and after listening for ten minutes, we establish that they've never even shot a rifle, and they just need something under $500 for occasionally hunting whitetail. Great, here's a decent .30-30 and maybe a 10/22 for junior.

The guy gets what he needs, but it's not what he expected. Why? Because the internet and Cousin Joe Bob Who Used To Know A Cop have fed him a litany of confusing, contradictory opinions dressed as fact.

What I tell people is, don't be afraid to ask questions, and don't trust anyone who dogmatically says This Is Unquestionably The Right Gun For Every Situation--on either side of the counter. Everyone's different, and the process differs from one situation to the next.
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Old August 31, 2012, 08:42 AM   #60
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A large part of it is how well you play the "game" and unless someone buys and sells a lot, you may never understand it fully.
Hmmm, I should probably be benched....have yet to run across a real steal

Quote:
When someone tells me they need and EDC SHTF rifle for CQB that's good for zombie apes at 1000 yards and they know from first-hand experience that it has to have 30-round clips and be chambered in something larger than .223 because .223 has no stopping power and the ammo needs to be cheap in case society melts down...

...and after listening for ten minutes, we establish that they've never even shot a rifle, and they just need something under $500 for occasionally hunting whitetail. Great, here's a decent .30-30 and maybe a 10/22 for junior.

The guy gets what he needs, but it's not what he expected. Why? Because the internet and Cousin Joe Bob Who Used To Know A Cop have fed him a litany of confusing, contradictory opinions dressed as fact.
You, sir, owe me a monitor and a new shirt...I now have coffee on mine
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Old August 31, 2012, 10:16 AM   #61
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Tom - that was hilarious!
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Old September 4, 2012, 04:43 PM   #62
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Creeper, You said it very well.
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Old September 5, 2012, 07:31 AM   #63
Skans
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I asked about a Browning Hi Power, but I accidentally called it a Hi Point.
Now, that's funny! I suppose if I was the counter-guy, I'd have a little chuckle at your expense, but I wouldn't be mean about it.

"If it's a Hi-Point your looking for, I've got one over here and 'll sell it to ya for 10% less than this here old gun"
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Old September 5, 2012, 02:36 PM   #64
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I didn't want to start a new thread since my question fits here so well. Last week my wife and I were at the LGS/indoor range shooting some small stuff for her. It was her first time there and my third. The range is separated from the storefront by a half wall and glass. It is a great setup with a nice store and range. The workers there are very nice,helpful,and understanding if my wife's needs. After she was done shooting I stepped back to grab a stapler to change targets and looked over to see a woman in the store aiming at me thru the window. (the windows are behind the sales counter) she was not just covering me,it was eyes down the sights aiming. I didn't want to freak in front of my wife and turn her off of shooting but we did finish pretty quick after that. So all that to say this, do I say something about it next time I'm there (I think yes) and more importantly HOW.
And yes I did pee myself a little....
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Old September 5, 2012, 04:05 PM   #65
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Nearly all of the guns I've bought are military/LEO grade, also ugly and finished in scratch resistant black.

They're not pieces of jewelry, fancy watches, or snowflakes.

If a Sig, HK, Glock, Walther, etc. breaks because someone is dry firing it, racking the slide, or, God forbid, drops a magazine ON THE FLOOR... then it's defective and you've just done everyone a favor and identified a serious warranty problem before any poor soul bought it.

Any gun store that thinks an ugly Nitron finished military grade gun that can survive being dropped down a cliff, immersed in sea water, baked, frozen, thrown in the mud, then hosed off can in any way be damaged by typical handling to make sure everything is in order (trigger, slide, magazine release, etc) doesn't deserve your business.

...this doesn't apply to guns with fancy grips and finishes that aren't meant to be used as a hammer if need be.
What you say may be true, but it does not circumvent common courteousy when handling property you do not own. Ask first
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Old September 6, 2012, 03:04 AM   #66
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I usually point the gun at the floor to look down the sights and whatnot.
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Old September 6, 2012, 04:40 AM   #67
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I always thought it was a little weird when you would be at the counter and look to your right as an example and see a guy with his son checking out a rifle that happens to be pointed at you instead of the wall behind the counter
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Old September 6, 2012, 10:20 AM   #68
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I don't mind other people dry firing my guns. I do it all the time, how is it going to matter if someone else does.

If I am looking at a gun for either immediate or future purchase I have no problem working the action or dry firing the gun and almost never ask. If they don't like me dry firing, I guess they will tell me and I probably won't be purchasing from them or visiting the store in the future.

I am sure some will call this incredibly rude, of well. By my standard, dry firing a gun is part of knowing how it will work for me and if a person is looking at a gun for purchase - absolutely required.
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Old September 6, 2012, 10:47 AM   #69
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After she was done shooting I stepped back to grab a stapler to change targets and looked over to see a woman in the store aiming at me thru the window. (the windows are behind the sales counter) she was not just covering me,it was eyes down the sights aiming
How did she not see you?
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Old September 6, 2012, 12:22 PM   #70
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or dry firing the gun and almost never ask. If they don't like me dry firing, I guess they will tell me and I probably won't be purchasing from them or visiting the store in the future.

I am sure some will call this incredibly rude, of well
I don't know about "incredibly" but I would call it rude. I always ask the owner of any firearm before I dry fire it if it's ok to do so before I do. How hard is that?
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Old September 6, 2012, 01:15 PM   #71
481
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Originally Posted by Gunnut17:
Quote:
After she was done shooting I stepped back to grab a stapler to change targets and looked over to see a woman in the store aiming at me thru the window. (the windows are behind the sales counter) she was not just covering me,it was eyes down the sights aiming
How did she not see you?
For some folks, the universe ends about three feet in every direction from wherever they happen to be standing. Nothing outside of that space matters to them.
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Old September 6, 2012, 03:00 PM   #72
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Another ground pointer here. Although I've gotten some odd mixed reactions when asking about preferred safe direction. One shop, preferred that people pointed at the wall behind the sales counter...behind which was the office and stock area. Other's have seemed baffled that I would bother asking, I guess the didn't mind if I pointed at walls that had other shops behind them?
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:36 PM   #73
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Although I've gotten some odd mixed reactions when asking about preferred safe direction.
Heck, I wish people would just ask. Common courtesy is so uncommon that it comes as a breath of fresh air when we actually encounter it.
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Old September 6, 2012, 09:43 PM   #74
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Common courtesy is so uncommon that it comes as a breath of fresh air when we actually encounter it.
I know what you mean, once I held a door for a woman, and she said, "Excuse me." as if I was forcing the door shut.
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Old September 6, 2012, 11:16 PM   #75
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To thedudeabides.......post #30.

Ahem.......you rapid dryfire a $2500 Colt Python infront of the store owner or a 99% rimfire Mk III with a strait face telling him "this will never hurt it" I will pay $20 to watch that go down......
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Last edited by Tom Servo; September 7, 2012 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Excised intemperate language
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