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Old August 30, 2012, 04:08 AM   #26
Brit
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A Pistol is constantly with you. It can be a fight stopper against multiple close in attackers, armed with contact weapons. IE Parking lot, loading grocery's.

Sixteen rounds of 9mm Ranger 147g non plus P. The ability to hit an eye socket at 7 yds (across a kitchen, intruder standing behind a family member, knife in hand, very still... thank you)

And if it is your only weapon (Concealed) a spare G17 magazine, to compliment your Glock 19, and Surefire 200 lumen on belt, day or night, 33 rounds, beats a sharp stick. Good to go.

A reasonable pistol shot can be a real threat at 100 yds. Yes, a pistol is realistic.
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Old August 30, 2012, 03:56 PM   #27
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CQC like in my house. More bullets and very easy to corner with.
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Old August 30, 2012, 04:58 PM   #28
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All these kids don't know what a phone booth is, but my generation knows it's what Bill and Ted traveled through time in. PARTY ON, DUDES!
this is the most excellent comment I've ever read

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Old August 30, 2012, 05:03 PM   #29
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All these kids don't know what a phone booth is, but my generation knows it's what Bill and Ted traveled through time in. PARTY ON, DUDES!
Interlock wins the internetz today!
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Old August 30, 2012, 05:24 PM   #30
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You young whippersnappers need to learn: A phone booth is where Superman changes his clothes.
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:12 PM   #31
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All these kids don't know what a phone booth is, but my generation knows it's what Bill and Ted traveled through time in. PARTY ON, DUDES!
HAH! I grew up in Boston where even today you can find a payphone here and there. But anyways I was down the cape last summer and my cellphone died at the supermarket, so I was asking around for a payphone and getting looks like I was crazy. Guess times have changed.
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Old August 30, 2012, 08:22 PM   #32
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Although not related to the post topic, I also miss phone booths. I think getting rid of phone booths is a bad idea. So, if something happens to our cell phones and we cant use a public pay phone, we have to ask complete strangers to borrow their phone? Not my idea of a good time.

And yes, superman uses them quite well. Also a great time-traveling device.
The one con:

If you use one in downtown new york, you may be subject to a sniper's game of cat and mouse. Sounds like a movie......
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Old August 30, 2012, 08:33 PM   #33
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Q: Is there any possible situation wher a pistol is superior to a Long Gun or SMG?

A: When you are paying for all the ammo at the range session?
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Old September 1, 2012, 07:40 PM   #34
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A pistol is always available...

Provided one carries it all the time. That is the main point of 'superiority' if such it is.

One can invent or think of various scenarios wherein a pistol would be of greater utility than a longer arm, but they are specific and few. A longer arm can normally be employed with greater precision and distance than any handgun, under the same conditions.

Or to put it in other words, If I knew I was going to a gunfight, I'd take a carbine at a minimum.

For a person who's business is getting into other people's business (law enforcement, for instance) one would hope the individual agent would have both options at his disposal - pistol on hip, long gun in the transport.
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Old September 1, 2012, 07:58 PM   #35
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When is a pistol superior to a long gun or SMG?

When it's the only gun you have!

Lots of other times too, but the long gun gives us a better ability to hit beyond 15-20 yards for most all of us -- even though a few of us can knock off the odd jackrabbit at 125 yards with open-sighted pistols.
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Old September 1, 2012, 08:10 PM   #36
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My response is use the one which you can hit with.

I do question some of the posters ascertain that pistols out range shotguns. I personally know deer hunters who routines take deer at 100 yards with a 12 ga using both OO buck and slugs.

Other than a long range handgun shooters and bullseye competitors, most pistol shooters can't hit a fifty yard target let alone one at 100 yards. My ISPA club in AR would not let me design courses because I all ways included 2 fifty yard targets. The start target and the end target. Other than a couple of guys who were hunters or ex bullseye shooters none of the others could hit the targets.

Last edited by ltc444; September 1, 2012 at 08:12 PM. Reason: amend
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Old September 2, 2012, 12:07 PM   #37
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A shotgun with a rifled barrel is very accurate. 100 yard shots are pretty easy with one or two magazines of practice. Anyone who thinks they can shoot more accurately with a pistol than a shotgun equipped with a slug barrel is seriously deluded. Especially when you add sabots into the mix. You are basically shooting a low speed 50 caliber rifle. Modern shotguns come equipped with decent sights.

The only time a pistol is better than any long gun is when you can't get your long gun.
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Old September 2, 2012, 12:37 PM   #38
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Unless the shotgun is sporting a smoothbore barrel because its owner usually loads it with shot shells... which describes most shotguns. Dedicated slug barrels normally get used in one of two limited instances: a state allows hunting with shotguns loaded with slugs, but not rifles; or, a shooter's budget only allows for one weapon, so the hunter buys multiple barrels for a shotgun, and switches according to a given day's intended use.

A handgun is easier to maneuver with, in certain circumstances, such as TunnelRat and others have posted.

And, again as others have posted, sometimes a handgun can be taken places where a long gun simply cannot.
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Old September 2, 2012, 12:38 PM   #39
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ltc44, I recently started playing with 50 yard targets with a CZ75. No problem, so far; will try 100 yards next week.
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Old September 2, 2012, 12:53 PM   #40
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I personally know deer hunters who routines take deer at 100 yards with a 12 ga using both OO buck
Routinely takes deer at 100 yards with 00buck? Really? Sounds like a bad plan ...... .33" 54gr 00Buck has a BC of .071 and an ititial velocity of around 1300 f/sec ..... by 100 yards, it is well below 800 f/sec ...... how big would that pattern be, I wonder?

.33 cal roundball @800 f/sec (about 75 ft/lbs of energy!) does not even sound like a good idea for deer, even if one of them manage to hit the animal somewhere important. A field point arrow out of a compound bow would have more energy, and probably penetrate better .....
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Old September 2, 2012, 06:53 PM   #41
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I'd say in the majority of defensive situations a handgun is the best tool. Some have been mentioned already, and my rational has as well, the handgun is the tool you wear, not carry, you can have it on you at nearly any time, fairly conveniently, even while working or doing other things than getting ready for an assault. Most situations develop from uncertain beginnings, carrying a long gun around where most problems occur just isn't practical or realistic, not is it generally realistic for non-law officers to present an arm before knowing things are going south. Handguns are discrete enough to appear non threatening or totally unnoticed until things go wrong, then are instantly available for use.

I've often heard the saying that a handgun is to fight your way to your rifle, but think that's pretty far fetched in most instances. Having any long gun close by in day to day life isnt practical, even living out in rural areas. If you can get to a long gun by using a handgun, you could well get clear of the problem as well. I'd suggest using the handgun to deal with the problem straight away. I think the mindset of always trying to get to a long gun, which may be nowhere close, is unrealistic in most instances. If it's availalbe, sure, get it, but even where I am (very rural mountain area), having a long gun close at hand at all times isn't very practical. I always have a handgun, they are easy to have available.

Hitting at distance with a handgun isn't that tough, it takes some practice. Most try it once or twice, or never, and give up, defeating themselves before even getting a clue how to do it. It forces you to focus on the basics, but isn't that difficult once it's understood. I don't even think of shotguns in a defensive role, just handguns and rifles. Whatever I could do with a shotgun, even a very good one, I could do better with a rifle. I don't know how far a smoothbore shotgun can hit well, but I'd guess I could hit at least as well with a decent handgun, if not to farther ranges. I'm not speculating on distance shooting with a handgun, I've done it fairly often for 25 years. It just isn't that hard to do once you get started. There may be places that a shotgun is a good tool, but the wide open spaces of the west isnt it. YMMV, that's my perspective.
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Old September 2, 2012, 07:24 PM   #42
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I always have a beat up shotgun in my toolbox. If the SHTF I am not going to be defending myself with a peashooter (9mm). 00 buck is extremely effective out to 45 yards. Plus it's great for killing coyotes or any other nuisance critter. Unless my pastures have just been mowed it's difficult to see small animals like coyotes until you are right on top of them.
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Old September 2, 2012, 08:09 PM   #43
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OK, a shotgun is handy for that use up close, but a handgun still has more range than a shotgun. I've made a first round it on a coyote at about 125 yards with the 4" 29. I also keep a long gun close, mostly a 94 Winchester carbine or a scoped bolt gun, but not as close as a handgun. When I shot that particular coyote, I was riding with a friend on what seemed like an innocous errand, so didn't have a long gun with me, but always had the 29 on.
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Old September 2, 2012, 09:50 PM   #44
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Yea when you and BG are in a fight and he takes your rifle from you. Then your handgun would be better.
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Old September 3, 2012, 05:04 AM   #45
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Now exactly how do you plan disarm someone trained to use a rifle? I would split your skull up like a ceramic jar or just flat out run you through with the barrel.

Someone close this thread. It get crazier with each post.
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Old September 3, 2012, 09:18 AM   #46
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I know a lot of people who are trained to shoot and maintain rifles. I know very few who are trained at rifle retention, or in using a rifle as a melee weapon. I know quite a few people who know how to execute a disarm.
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Old September 3, 2012, 10:21 AM   #47
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Here's an interesting pistol. Will it be useful?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtPiA...e_gdata_player

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Old September 3, 2012, 10:40 AM   #48
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ready, exercise

What this thread needs is a couple of stab parry buttstrokes!
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Old September 3, 2012, 11:30 AM   #49
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Old Crow, I have a military background. I also have a couple decades of martial arts training.

I have a lot of friends who are current and retired Marines. You don't remind me of them. OTOH, your comments in general do have some Mall Ninja-ness to them.

Edit: In a different thread, you said not to waste your time talking about the need for practice. Now, you say you're an old Marine, and they taught you rifle retention in phase one of boot camp... you don't believe in practice... but you think you could perfectly execute something you were taught, briefly, a long time ago (going by your net claims)?

And you are calling people Mall Ninjas....

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Old September 3, 2012, 11:43 AM   #50
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I am just an old feeble marine. My pistol isn't accurate at 125 yards. I stick to old school tactics. The only martial arts training I have had is sparing with my cousin who was a world champion kick boxer and the judo classes you get into the military. I bow to your superior knowledge and skills. Please don't hurt me. Some day maybe you will teach me to do things that Olympic champions and the best recon rangers can't do.
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