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Old September 7, 2012, 09:43 AM   #76
tomrkba
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Just because you can think it doesn't make it true. Snarky responses such as those made are based upon the false premise that the gun is the answer for all situations.

Proper training in a variety of contexts is essential. You can pretend all you want, but the fact of the matter is, people will drop to their lowest level of training under such situations. If a person has been practicing incorrectly, then odds are they will use that deviant method rather than the correct one. Every time I draw my J-Frame from my Nemesis, I put my thumb over the hammer. I do not deviate from this even with a 442. The J-Frame is not my primary gun, but it's essential to practice with it.

Quote:
It (putting your thumb over the hammer), may not work for you if you have been jumped and beaten to the ground, stomped as you are fighting to get your pocket revolver out.
As mentioned before, this assumes that the solution is to go to the gun. The actual solution is demonstrated in SouthNarc's ECQC course. Take it and find out just how fast these things end up on the ground. You will learn how to reduce the odds of being knocked down and what to do if you are knocked down.

Last edited by tomrkba; September 7, 2012 at 09:49 AM.
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Old September 8, 2012, 09:27 PM   #77
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Back to the OP.....I'd recommend a DAO snub mainly for the fact that your other gun is a Glock 19. You're already used to DAO, so why change now?

In addition to the 642, look at the S&W Bodyguard & Ruger LCR. The LCR trigger may even be closer to your Glock trigger in feel.
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Old September 9, 2012, 10:18 PM   #78
warningshot
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Addressing the OP. Administrative loading concearn.

Question: After you load the chambers and close the cylinder, how do you know the cylinder is properly locked into position? i.e. how do you know the cylinder will spin properly? How can you tell that all cartridges are seated properly and you have no high primers?
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Old September 9, 2012, 10:45 PM   #79
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Quote:
Question: After you load the chambers and close the cylinder, how do you know the cylinder is properly locked into position?
It goes, "Click", when you close the cylinder.

Quote:
i.e. how do you know the cylinder will spin properly?
Test it for function by dry firing before loading.

Quote:
How can you tell that all cartridges are seated properly and you have no high primers?
Put your cartridges on a flat surface and try to rock them back and fourth...you can feel if they have a high primer.

I am assuming that you meant those questions in reference to a revolver without a hammer spur.
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Old September 9, 2012, 10:59 PM   #80
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eeerrrrrrr

Try again.
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Old September 10, 2012, 04:43 AM   #81
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dahermit got it in one.....you check those things first before you load or carry your gun. I also like to manually "twist" the cylinder after closing to check lockup. Never hurts to be sure.
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Old September 10, 2012, 09:05 AM   #82
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Quote:
eeerrrrrrr
Try again.
There are many revolvers that come without hammer spurs. Why do you think that they never post about having those problems. It would seem that if there were going to be the problems as you suggest, that they would become evident when practicing with the gun.(actually firing). Of the four spurless revolvers I have, and fire almost every day (retired, home range), none has manifest any of the problems you list. It (one of the problems) could happen, but then an evil dwarf could jump up and bite me on the butt also.
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Last edited by dahermit; September 10, 2012 at 09:22 AM.
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Old September 10, 2012, 09:18 AM   #83
dahermit
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Quote:
Quote:
Question: After you load the chambers and close the cylinder, how do you know the cylinder is properly locked into position?
It goes, "Click", when you close the cylinder. Other than that, the same way you would know if it had a spur.

Quote:
Quote:
i.e. how do you know the cylinder will spin properly?
Test it for function by dry firing before loading. You shoot it frequently, as you should any carry gun.
Quote:
Quote:
How can you tell that all cartridges are seated properly and you have no high primers?
Put your cartridges on a flat surface and try to rock them back and fourth...you can feel if they have a high primer. You use factory ammo for carry, and look at them as you load them, or if blind, feel for a high primer with your finger. If you do not know how to perform those routine functions, you should perhaps consult a knowledgeable firearms instructor.
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Old September 10, 2012, 08:01 PM   #84
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Quote:
How can you tell that all cartridges are seated properly and you have no high primers?
A good habit to get into regardless of what type of pistol you're shooting, especially with ammo bought for SD, is to inspect the box of ammo when you first purchase it.
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Old September 11, 2012, 03:37 AM   #85
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Load-Close-Lock-Fire-Unlock-Open-Eject.

The chambers are loaded. The cylinder is closed. No more eyeballing or finger feeling your cartridges. Ammunition inspection time is over!

How do you confirm the cylinder on your hammer spur removed revolver is in the locked position? Not just closed, but locked.

Maybe those with excellent eyesight and the opportunity to confirm the cylinder is locked by actual firing the loaded revolver off the back porch can clue the rest of us in.

Last edited by warningshot; September 11, 2012 at 03:42 AM.
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Old September 11, 2012, 06:02 AM   #86
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I was looking for a 642 when i found a heck of a deal on a 638. Really like the option of being able to cock the hammer manually when i want to. Wife does to. But only drawback i can see if there is one is the ability for lint to get down in there when pocket carrying.
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Old September 11, 2012, 08:10 AM   #87
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Quote:
How do you confirm the cylinder on your hammer spur removed revolver is in the locked position? Not just closed, but locked.
Listen...Look...Feel...

Listen:
actually hear the cylinder release click into locked position.

Look:
As you close your cylinder, if you watch the cylinder releases lever, you can actually watch the lever as it will reset into the locked position.

With the cylinder out, visually mark where your cylinder release is setting. Slowly close the cylinder and watch the release reset into locked position. The locked position of the lever will be about a 1/16- 1/8" rearward of the unlocked position.

Feel:
after you load and close your cylinder, as you rotate the cylinder to make sure a chamber is lined up correctly with the bore , put a bit of side pressure on cylinder making sure cylinder won't move outward. Just as you should make a habit of doing on any revolver when loading as parts(including cyl. locks) wear out.

warningshot,

I'm not trying to be argumentative but this is the second time you have referred to not being able to make sure cylinder is locked on a hammerless revolver.
Have you had experience with this issue, know of someone that's had this issue or have any stats. confirming this has been problem with hammerless pistols?

Again, not being argumentative but I've shot revolvers with hammers as well as hammerless for 40yrs.(Note: by no means am I a revolver guru and I'm always willing to learn, hence my question). Load them both with a regular regiment that's the same....keep pistol inspected/maintained, inspect ammo,load,close cylinder and slightly spin cyl. lining up chamber while applying a bit of side pressure to cyl. And have just never experienced any problems in the areas you're suggesting on any revolver.
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Old September 11, 2012, 09:49 AM   #88
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Quote:
The chambers are loaded. The cylinder is closed. No more eyeballing or finger feeling your cartridges. Ammunition inspection time is over!

How do you confirm the cylinder on your hammer spur removed revolver is in the locked position? Not just closed, but locked.

Maybe those with excellent eyesight and the opportunity to confirm the cylinder is locked by actual firing the loaded revolver off the back porch can clue the rest of us in.
What do you do with a gun that has a spur? Do you actually cock the gun (to see if it rotates the cylinder), and release the hammer on a loaded gun inside your house (we are talking carry guns here), before you holster it? Please explain what you are referring to.
If you are doing as above, you are doing something risky with a loaded gun that could result in an accidental discharge in your house.

You are trying to construct an issue where none exists. Those of us who routinely carry, do not cock and release the hammer our carry guns to see if the bolt is engaged after loading and closing the cylinder, spurred hammer or not. When preparing our carry guns, we load the cylinders with factory ammo, holster(pocket) the gun and go about our business.

Quote:
Have you had experience with this issue, know of someone that's had this issue or have any stats. confirming this has been problem with hammerless pistols?
Exactly!
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Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

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Last edited by dahermit; September 11, 2012 at 10:03 AM.
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Old September 11, 2012, 02:01 PM   #89
warningshot
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Can you close the cylinder on a revolver and have it, the cylinder, not locked?

If so...then what happens? How can the shooter tell the cylinder is not locked after he raised the revolver thinking it was ready to go?

Is it true that just because the cylinder is closed that it is locked? Why does the firing order of a revolver include the words, close, and lock, and why are these words seperated by a commas? Does the cylinder always lock automatically? Is there something that always happens automatically during the loading procedure with a revolver?
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Old September 11, 2012, 02:11 PM   #90
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Quote:
as you rotate the cylinder to make sure a chamber is lined up correctly with the bore , put a bit of side pressure on cylinder making sure cylinder won't move outward.
Just as you should make a habit of doing on any revolver when loading as parts(including cyl. locks) wear out.
If the cylinder is not locked in place, won't it rotate out when you do what's in bold black? And won't the cylinder on a hammer gun do the same?

Again, can you quote any frequent problems revolvers have had in this area?
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Old September 11, 2012, 02:14 PM   #91
warningshot
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If your revolver wasn't perfect, might the cylinder drag or bind just a little bit causing the shooter to falsely believe the cylinder is locked instead of just being closed? Of course this could never happen. Not me. No, no, no.

Why would anyone ever be conceared this might happen to them or someone eles. If you look-listen-feel your way thru then you can rest assured that you and no one else will ever have a revolver, with loaded chambers, at the ready, with a cylinder that is closed but not locked.

A defined step, a predetermined single step during the loading procedure outlined in an administrative revolver loading process, one designed to function test and check the condition of the cylinder..naaww. I'm not blind.

Why did S&W leave exposed hammer spurs on DA revolvers? Just for looks and single action shooting?

Last edited by warningshot; September 11, 2012 at 04:08 PM.
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Old September 11, 2012, 02:34 PM   #92
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Quote:
test
Please post back with your results.
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Old September 11, 2012, 03:09 PM   #93
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Quote:
One of these 2 guys...lately the 649. The extra weight is really not an issue as it is a lot lighter than my Colt 1911. Keeps recoil down for a faster follow up shot. Will not snag. Love the SA if I need it. Have taken it out to 100 yards and will keep them all in the black on the PPC targets the police use. Just do not ask for the group size.
Very pretty. I carry a 649-5 myself, but I always keep an eye open for a 649-3, which is the only .357 variant pre-ILS. I'm not particularly worried about it spontaneously activating, as that's supposedly only a problem in the airweight revolvers, but if I can find a -3 at a reasonable price it will go home with me.
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Old September 11, 2012, 03:41 PM   #94
dahermit
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Can you close the cylinder on a revolver and have it, the cylinder, not locked?
First, you must define, "locked". If you mean that the ends of the Extractor Rod, Center Pin and Locking Bolt, you would be able to feel that it did not CLICK! when you closed the cylinder. If it CLICKS, it is locked. However, by locking up you mean can the cylinder stop not be engaged, YES. However, if one turns the S&W cylinder slightly clock-wise, the cylinder stop will stop the cylinder from rotating any further that the first cylinder locking notch.

Quote:
If so...then what happens? How can the shooter tell the cylinder is not locked after he raised the revolver thinking it was ready to go?
A moot point. You can hear/feel the cylinder lock. Nevertheless, a spur on the hammer was not likely the intention of the designer to test that the cylinder was locked (at each end), or locking bolt in the notch.

Quote:
Is it true that just because the cylinder is closed that it is locked?
More than adequately responded to.

Quote:
Why does the firing order of a revolver include the words, close, and lock, and why are these words separated by a commas?
Because the technical writer likes commas. Hammer spurs have NOTHING to do with the cylinder locking into position, or the locking bolt entering the notch. I you believe differently, present your case.

Quote:
Does the cylinder always lock automatically?
No, you have to push it into the frame.

Quote:
Is there something that always happens automatically during the loading procedure with a revolver?
Yes, we get people who want to argue even though the logic has been presented most eloquently and eruditely.
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Old September 11, 2012, 03:44 PM   #95
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Count me as another fan of the 637 and its exposed hammer. However, I usually choose to carry it when I'm wearing a Coronado leather vest with a dedicated concealment pocket, so the hammer isn't a problem. For pants-pocket carry, I usually go with either a NAA Guardian in .32 or a Sig P238 in .380, each in an appropriate pocket holster.
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Old September 11, 2012, 04:19 PM   #96
warningshot
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Please post loading instructions that include the ordered word pairs, "...if it clicks...'', or, ''Look, Listen and Feel".

If only some people could keep their NDs to themselves.

Last edited by warningshot; September 11, 2012 at 04:25 PM.
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Old September 11, 2012, 04:35 PM   #97
dahermit
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Quote:
Please post loading instructions that include the ordered word pairs, "...if it clicks...'', or, ''Look, Listen and Feel".

If only some people could keep their NDs to themselves.
Please post instructions from S&W where they say that: "The purpose of the hammer is not to cock the gun to shoot single action, but for the purpose of determining if the cylinder is locked into position." Or, "...aside from cocking the gun, the hammer spur also serves the serendipitous purpose of ensuring cylinder lock-up."
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Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

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Old September 11, 2012, 04:38 PM   #98
dahermit
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Quote:
Why did S&W leave exposed hammer spurs on DA revolvers? Just for looks and single action shooting?
They have the spur there (but not on all models), for the anal retentive among us to have something to play with.
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Old September 11, 2012, 04:42 PM   #99
dahermit
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...A defined step, a predetermined single step during the loading procedure outlined in an administrative revolver loading process, one designed to function test and check the condition of the cylinder..naaww. I'm not blind...
What is "...in an administrative revolver loading process..."?
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Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you only pay more for what you get.
Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

If the Bible is the literal, infallible, unerring word of God...where are all those witches I am supposed to kill?
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Old September 11, 2012, 04:53 PM   #100
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warningshot, if you have some actual guidance from Smith and Wesson about using the hammer to function check a gun that is loaded with live ammo, please provide a reference citation or link.

Function checks I have read all involve unloaded revolvers.
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