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Old August 30, 2012, 05:47 PM   #51
tkglazie
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And if you don't want to use them that's fine with us. But don't put us in the same boat as you and tell us if we adjusted our dies correctly we wouldn't need the FCD either. As I said before there are other reasons to use the FCD even if you don't see it.
Exactly. As stated before, using mixed range brass that may or may not be bulged is one such reason.
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:03 PM   #52
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And if you don't want to use them that's fine with us. But don't put us in the same boat as you and tell us if we adjusted our dies correctly we wouldn't need the FCD either. As I said before there are other reasons to use the FCD even if you don't see it.
Quote:
Quote:
And if you don't want to use them that's fine with us. But don't put us in the same boat as you and tell us if we adjusted our dies correctly we wouldn't need the FCD either. As I said before there are other reasons to use the FCD even if you don't see it.

Exactly. As stated before, using mixed range brass that may or may not be bulged is one such reason.
Please reread my post #31, covers the above.

Quote:
As I said before there are other reasons to use the FCD even if you don't see it.
I see it, really I do, I just see no need for it. I realize thats hard for those sold on the FCD to comprehend. But such is life.

BTW Bulged brass from range pick-ups is taken care of when resized. I must have the magic sizer die.

But then I already know I'm special!
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:20 PM   #53
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As I've stated, I have not had the need for the Lee FCD. I'm not saying that it isn't helpful for others either. My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds. Bullet fit is critical if you want to keep leading to a minimum. I would think that post sizing may lead to increased leading. Has anyone had any issues in regard to this?
This is one of those things on the net that I have seen written with a "could" or "might" many many times, but have never actualy seen a firsthand report of a problem....

Anyone?
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Old August 30, 2012, 06:25 PM   #54
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jcwit with your magic sizing you have no need for the holy grail of the FCD.

It seems that somewhere along the process of handling bress case's they may be sized down too far and seated bullets bulge out the side walls. Then the only way to fix that is after seating resizing with the FCD.
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Old August 30, 2012, 07:53 PM   #55
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"If the FCD is such a great invention wonder why non of the other manufactures haven't jumped on the bandwagon."

Perhaps it has something to do with patient laws?

Anyone thinking 'die adjustment' can eliminate all chambering problems in handguns has much too little experience to listen to, no matter how long they've been reloading. (Some people have fifty years of experience, some have one year of experience they've repeated fifty times!)
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Old August 30, 2012, 09:36 PM   #56
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"If the FCD is such a great invention wonder why non of the other manufactures haven't jumped on the bandwagon."
Well Lee isn't the first to use a finishing die, all of the big ammo manufactures use them to post size the finished rounds. I hope you didn't think they had 500 people sitting there running finished rounds through case gauges. They are probably the first to combine it with the crimp feature. Now if they would just learn to adjust their dies right they wouldn't need a finishing die.

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Perhaps it has something to do with patient laws?
That would be my guess also.
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Old August 30, 2012, 09:44 PM   #57
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I recently spoke with a world class bullet caster about some accuracy issues with my .40 S&W. First question he asked was if I used a Lee FCD. (I hadn't)

Not saying they don't have a place, but it generally ain't with cast bullets you want to land close to each other.
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Old August 30, 2012, 10:13 PM   #58
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"Not saying they don't have a place, but it generally ain't with cast bullets you want to land close to each other."

Trust me on this, if your cast bullets are the same size as your jacketed bullets they will load the same land just as close together no matter what dies you use.
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Old August 31, 2012, 04:18 AM   #59
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Quote:
As I've stated, I have not had the need for the Lee FCD. I'm not saying that it isn't helpful for others either. My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds. Bullet fit is critical if you want to keep leading to a minimum. I would think that post sizing may lead to increased leading. Has anyone had any issues in regard to this?
This is one of those things on the net that I have seen written with a "could" or "might" many many times, but have never actualy seen a firsthand report of a problem....

Anyone?
Yep.

9x19mm
.356" lead bullets
After going through a Lee Carbide FCD, the bullets come out at .355" and lead like crazy.

At .356" everything is fine.
After a trip the the FCD and getting sized down to .355" on the bearing surface... it all goes to crap.
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Old August 31, 2012, 08:41 AM   #60
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Seems like this has been beat to death, some see value some don't... No different the nything else I guess. Fwiw I have 6 45s, I reload the same ammo for all of them and for a few friends who have 45s. 5 of the 6 have barrels from high end barrel makers, nowlin, kart, Wilson... I load probably one of the most difficult bullets to feed for a 45, 250 gr lead flat nose. I don't use a fcd and I have no problems in any of these guns. My brass is all range brass. I use a dillon 550 and dillon dies.

If you feel it provides reliability then use it, it's an expensive die. But I have not found the need. I wouldn't go out and get it till there was a problem to solve and you exhausted other options.
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Old August 31, 2012, 09:06 AM   #61
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wncchester Anyone thinking 'die adjustment' can eliminate all chambering problems in handguns has much too little experience to listen to, no matter how long they've been reloading. (Some people have fifty years of experience, some have one year of experience they've repeated fifty times!)
OK I'll change my statemewnt. I find No use for the FCD in any of my 40 some handguns or calibers that I reload in. My 50 plus years of experience being of no consequense.

If those of you have not been able to adjust your dies to accept rounds reloaded by you and you feel the need of an additional step to accomadate your handguns, HEY, GO FOR IT.

If this offends you, and your reloading ability, thats life. Just relating my personal experience.

Quote:
Yep.

9x19mm
.356" lead bullets
After going through a Lee Carbide FCD, the bullets come out at .355" and lead like crazy.

At .356" everything is fine.
After a trip the the FCD and getting sized down to .355" on the bearing surface... it all goes to crap.
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Correct!

Quote:
I reload the same ammo for all of them and for a few friends who have 45s. 5 of the 6 have barrels from high end barrel makers, nowlin, kart, Wilson... I load probably one of the most difficult bullets to feed for a 45, 250 gr lead flat nose. I don't use a fcd and I have no problems in any of these guns. My brass is all range brass. I use a dillon 550 and dillon dies.

If you feel it provides reliability then use it, it's an expensive die. But I have not found the need. I wouldn't go out and get it till there was a problem to solve and you exhausted other options.
Correct again!!
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Old August 31, 2012, 09:28 AM   #62
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Quote:
As I've stated, I have not had the need for the Lee FCD. I'm not saying that it isn't helpful for others either. My concern would the post sizing of cast lead rounds. Bullet fit is critical if you want to keep leading to a minimum. I would think that post sizing may lead to increased leading. Has anyone had any issues in regard to this?
Quote:
This is one of those things on the net that I have seen written with a "could" or "might" many many times, but have never actualy seen a firsthand report of a problem....
Anyone?
I only shoot my own cast lead bullets. I had a problem with Lee FCD sizing down the bullets too far (pulled bullets were way undersized for the bores), in .38 Super, .357 and .45 Auto. I ended up removing the Carbide sizing ring and just using the die for crimping.
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Old August 31, 2012, 09:32 AM   #63
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"If the FCD is such a great invention wonder why non of the other manufactures haven't jumped on the bandwagon."

Perhaps it has something to do with patient laws?
Sure! Believe me its not that hard to change the design enough to come out with another die.
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Old August 31, 2012, 10:34 AM   #64
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From what I've found the basic fcd was patented Jan 1992, so it seems to reason with that patent running out, other loading tool companys may produce something of that nature.

I wonder if richard lee gets royalities from Winchester Western, Remington, Hornady, and all the other loading company's that use the principle of the sliding collet for crimping cannelured bullets.
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Old August 31, 2012, 10:43 AM   #65
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^Would not surprise me as he holds many patents and has done more than any other individual for reloaders.
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Old August 31, 2012, 10:43 AM   #66
jcwit
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If memory serves me correctly "that in itself may be a streach" Lee at one time made dies for the factory ammo companies. This may no longer be true if in fact it ever was.

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^Would not surprise me as he holds many patents and has done more than any other individual for reloaders.
Very true!
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Old August 31, 2012, 10:50 AM   #67
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Finally - agreement on something. I also agree, use the FCD if you like, and vice versa.
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Old August 31, 2012, 11:12 AM   #68
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Well actually waaaaay back in post 28 I wrote

Quote:
I'll stick to the way I load all my handgun cartridges. As stated I have no need for the Lee FCD in straight walled cases, if you see a need, go for it, or adjust your loading dies so you also can reload without it.
Key words there are, if you see a need, go for it. I repeated this same thought a few other times also.
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Old August 31, 2012, 05:49 PM   #69
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Seems like this has been beat to death, some see value some don't... No different the nything else I guess. Fwiw I have 6 45s, I reload the same ammo for all of them and for a few friends who have 45s. 5 of the 6 have barrels from high end barrel makers, nowlin, kart, Wilson... I load probably one of the most difficult bullets to feed for a 45, 250 gr lead flat nose. I don't use a fcd and I have no problems in any of these guns. My brass is all range brass. I use a dillon 550 and dillon dies.
Thats not actualy saying much. You have to keep in mind that .45 ACP is a pretty low pressure round, lower than any other autoloader round I know of, so .45 brass doesnt get bent out of shape nearly as much as with high pressure rounds like 9mm or .40 S&W.... The shape of the bullet is not the issue here, nor is it die adjustment. Its simply brass fired in too big chambers at high pressure that doesnt want to size back down completly like it should, regardless of the brand of dies or how much the press cost.
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Old August 31, 2012, 06:31 PM   #70
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OK I'll change my statemewnt. I find No use for the FCD in any of my 40 some handguns or calibers that I reload in. My 50 plus years of experience being of no consequense.

If those of you have not been able to adjust your dies to accept rounds reloaded by you and you feel the need of an additional step to accomadate your handguns, HEY, GO FOR IT.

If this offends you, and your reloading ability, thats life. Just relating my personal experience.
I think what offends people is the way you talk down to them. You are so great because you know how to adjust dies. Everybody that uses a FCD doesn't know how to adjust their dies and doesn't have the ability to reload and are beneith you. Me and a few other people already told you our dies are adjusted right and the FCD doesn't fix our ammo, we use it for other reasons. Obviously you just don't get it because you just keep going back to die adjustment.
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Old August 31, 2012, 07:29 PM   #71
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I think what offends people is the way you talk down to them. You are so great because you know how to adjust dies. Everybody that uses a FCD doesn't know how to adjust their dies and doesn't have the ability to reload and are beneith you. Me and a few other people already told you our dies are adjusted right and the FCD doesn't fix our ammo, we use it for other reasons.
Take it however you wish. If it offends you, fine, you have 2 choices, to stay offended or get over it, neither makes me any difference.

To me your dies may be adjusted correctly, then again they may not, I personally have no idea as I am not there. You claim you use the FCD for "OTHER" reasons, fine, as I've now written a number of times go for it.

Quote:
You are so great because you know how to adjust dies.
No, I'm so great because I have no problems, life is good!

Quote:
Obviously you just don't get it because you just keep going back to die adjustment.
OH! but obviously I do "get it". If you get your jollies from using it, once again, go for it.

BTW, Who's talking down to who? Better check the mirror.
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Old August 31, 2012, 08:22 PM   #72
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The FCD is the last die many of my reloads go through. I don't "need" the carbide sizing ring in the pistol dies, but I don't mind it being there. As far as I can tell it isn't touching any of the cases.

The only rifle cartridge I crimp these days is the .444 Marlin and the FCD does a fine job at that.
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Old August 31, 2012, 08:35 PM   #73
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I had an interesting thing happen with the FCD today. I picked up my first batch of hard cast .45 bullets and loaded some 200gr LSWC .452" diameter to try out. The bullets seated fine (I seat and remove the bellmouth at station 3, then FCD/taper crimp to .469/.470 at station 4), but when I ran the cartridge into the FCD it went it hard. quite hard, actually. I didnt pull any but I guarantee the bullet was being swaged .001"-.002". I can get this particular bullet locally and cheaply from a person that I care to do business with.

I didnt worry about it until seeing the results and I am glad I didnt. I tested 4 loads and all 4 of them would have been acceptable, and I will have to retest to determine which is the best of 2 of them. Both of the good load were making ragged holes at 25'.

I am very pleased. I can get this particular bullet locally and cheaply from a person that I care to do business with. I dont mind using a bit more muscle to run it through the FCD every time if the results are as good as I saw today, that's for sure

As with anything to do with reloading, what works for one gun may or may not work for another. I am sure glad I have an FCD available to test with each handgun caliber I load for. It is a good tool, and if helps any of my loads, I am glad to have it.
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Old September 1, 2012, 12:25 AM   #74
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I use the FCD for everything I reload. Tim
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Old September 1, 2012, 01:31 AM   #75
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I gotta be fair

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyHull
I use the FCD for everything I reload. Tim
I am a fan of much of the Lee equipment and quite often call to the carpet those who denigrate the Lee FCD, but in the interest of 1) symmetry and 2) disclosure, I have to ask you for clarifying, facts that support your opinion.

What cartridges (chamberings) do you reload?

Do all those cartridges you load really need the FCD?

And I must point out that a statement without details is virtually worthless to anyone trying to educate themselves (or willing to open their mind to change).

I don't let FCD detractors get away with it, and I will ask you for your reasoning just as quickly.

Besides, I like the FCD concept (both parts, separating the crimping from the seating all the time and the post sizing function sometimes) and I want to know why you do, too, in case I have missed some good arguments.

Thanks. Looking forward to your response.

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